Oxford, MI school shooting

[Pappy13]

Two cases in front of the SCOTUS. One case about the state of New York "restricting" 2nd amendment rights. Another case about the state of Mississippi "restricting" abortion rights. Well according to liberal logic, it's perfectly fine for states to "restrict" constitutionally guaranteed rights that are enshrined in the bill of rights. However, it's not acceptable to "restrict" abortion that was only declared a constitutionally guaranteed right by an interpretation by the SCOTUS 50 years ago.

I didn't even realize the guy in Oxford was pregnant let alone was wanting to get an abortion.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Parents have been charged with manslaughter.

[ArtieChokePhin]

Parents have been charged with manslaughter.

Now that's really fucked up.   What crime did they commit??   How can they be charged with anything if the kid snuck into the area where they kept the gun and took it without permission??

[stinkfish]

Parents should probably have kept the gun inaccessible to their kid.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Buy a gun for someone you know to be violent, not that different than hanging you car keys to someone you know is drunk and intending to drive drunk.

[Dolphster]

I think it was involuntary manslaughter.  And after reading about their antics, I'm glad they got charged and hope they get convicted.  What a couple of giant a-holes those two are.  Apparently a couple days before the shooting his teacher saw him shopping for ammo on his phone and given the kid's overall weirdness, he made a report of it.  When his parents found out, the mother texted him (and police are in possession of the phone and have that text) and said, "I'm not mad at you.  But learn not to get caught."   And the morning of the shooting they were called in to the school because of violent drawings his teacher found and the school asked the parents to take him with them on the way out and get him in counseling within 48 hours.  The parents declined.  This little kid was a weirdo and his parents are weirdos and they not only didn't take any precautions from keeping the kid from access to the gun, they encouraged it.   If they could ever figure out a way to keep ignorant people from buying guns, I would support that specific gun legislation.  

And now, the parents were supposed to surrender themselves at 2PM today in order to be arraigned at 4PM.   They did not show up and now local authorities and US Marshal's Service is searching for them.  And entire family of scum. 

[ArtieChokePhin]

I think it was involuntary manslaughter.  And after reading about their antics, I'm glad they got charged and hope they get convicted.  What a couple of giant a-holes those two are.  Apparently a couple days before the shooting his teacher saw him shopping for ammo on his phone and given the kid's overall weirdness, he made a report of it.  When his parents found out, the mother texted him (and police are in possession of the phone and have that text) and said, "I'm not mad at you.  But learn not to get caught."   And the morning of the shooting they were called in to the school because of violent drawings his teacher found and the school asked the parents to take him with them on the way out and get him in counseling within 48 hours.  The parents declined.  This little kid was a weirdo and his parents are weirdos and they not only didn't take any precautions from keeping the kid from access to the gun, they encouraged it.   If they could ever figure out a way to keep ignorant people from buying guns, I would support that specific gun legislation.  

And now, the parents were supposed to surrender themselves at 2PM today in order to be arraigned at 4PM.   They did not show up and now local authorities and US Marshal's Service is searching for them.  And entire family of scum. 

Wouldn't surprise me if they crossed the border.

[Spider-Dan]

All that typing and garble and all you have proven is that constitutionally guaranteed rights are subject to federal restrictions. That also includes abortion, for now.

So after all these years of "shall NOT be infringed" and "constitutional RIGHT to bear arms," you are just casually admitting that of course the feds can restrict constitutional rights?  This whole time, your only objection to gun control was that... it shouldn't be at the state or local level?

So here's your choices if you want to have congruent views and not be a hypocrite.

1. All constitutionally guaranteed rights can have federal and/or state restrictions placed on them.
OR
2. All constitutionally guaranteed rights are absolute.

Number 1 has always been the case.
It's the gun nuts who think the 2nd Amendment (and only the 2nd Amendment) is magical and allows Americans the ability to own any gun they desire, free from any sort of regulation.

So, just to see if I have your position correct. You think that regulating 1st and 2nd amendments are OK but regulating abortion isn't?

Since when was abortion ever "unregulated" in the US?
There have always been regulations on the timeframe within a pregnancy when abortions are allowable.

The question - when it comes to guns or abortions - is how much restriction should be allowed.

[Fau Teixeira]

Parents have been charged with manslaughter.

I'm a firm believer that if you own a gun and someone uses it to commit a crime you should be responsible for that crime.  You have responsibilities as a gun owner.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I'm a firm believer that if you own a gun and someone uses it to commit a crime you should be responsible for that crime.  You have responsibilities as a gun owner.

But not to the point where you should be charged with the crime itself.   The parents should be charged with something less serious, not murder.  That's why they fled.  They basically told the D.A. to go fuck himself.  

The parents being charged with murder is going to start this country down a slippery slope.  It will open the door for a lot of other unnecessary charges.

UPDATE:  The parents were nabbed in Detroit, so it looks like I was right about them attempting to cross into Canada.

[Dolphster]

But not to the point where you should be charged with the crime itself.   The parents should be charged with something less serious, not murder.  That's why they fled.  They basically told the D.A. to go fuck himself.  

The parents being charged with murder is going to start this country down a slippery slope.  It will open the door for a lot of other unnecessary charges.

UPDATE:  The parents were nabbed in Detroit, so it looks like I was right about them attempting to cross into Canada.

Artie, I believe the parents were charged with involuntary manslaughter, not murder.  That is a considerably lesser crime than first degree murder.  These types of charges vary slightly from state to state and I know Michigan has a lot of quirky felony laws.  I'm not absolutely certain because I'm no expert on Michigan laws, so if someone knows better than I do, please correct me on this next part.  Given the guidelines to legally warrant a charge of involuntary manslaughter in MOST states, the things that the parents did in allowing the little asshole kid access to the gun and just as importantly when they had a school conference the very same morning of the shooting and the school asked the parents to remove the kid from the school and get him into counseling within 48 hours which they declined to do.......those factors and several others seem to meet the legal requirements of an involuntary manslaughter charge. 

[pondwater]

So after all these years of "shall NOT be infringed" and "constitutional RIGHT to bear arms," you are just casually admitting that of course the feds can restrict constitutional rights?  This whole time, your only objection to gun control was that... it shouldn't be at the state or local level?

There are restrictions on the 2nd amendment. That's a fact, my opinion has nothing to do with the facts.

Number 1 has always been the case.
It's the gun nuts who think the 2nd Amendment (and only the 2nd Amendment) is magical and allows Americans the ability to own any gun they desire, free from any sort of regulation.

You'll have to take that up with the "gun nuts", whoever they are. And honestly, while there are restrictions on "certain" small arms. As long as you can pass a background check and have the money, you can pretty much own almost anything you want.

Since when was abortion ever "unregulated" in the US?
There have always been regulations on the timeframe within a pregnancy when abortions are allowable.

I don't think I ever said there weren't any regulations on abortion. If I did, well then that's my mistake. Let me clear that up for you. Certain states have more stringent regulations than other states about owning and carrying firearms. If that's the case, states should have the ability to have more stringent regulations than other states regarding abortion.

The question - when it comes to guns or abortions - is how much restriction should be allowed.

That's what the SCOTUS is soon going to tell you.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Unlike a murder charge, involuntary manslaughter means that a person had no intention of killing another, but due to their careless or reckless actions caused the death of a human being.

Certainly sounds like four people died because of the careless storing of the firearm.

[Dolphster]

Certainly sounds like four people died because of the careless storing of the firearm.

It was at least a major contributing factor.  When a lunatic wants to kill people, they will generally find a way.  But yep, the careless storing of the firearm definitely played a large role in it.

[Phishfan]

UPDATE:  The parents were nabbed in Detroit, so it looks like I was right about them attempting to cross into Canada.

They traveled south to get to Detroit.