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Author Topic: This is fair  (Read 3225 times)
Pappy13
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« on: January 12, 2022, 11:41:19 am »

I agree with almost everything in this article and it suggests that Tua should have been the one going instead of Flores. Can't say that I totally disagree although I hadn't thought of this previously.

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2022/1/10/22876955/brian-flores-fired-miami-dolphins-stephen-ross
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2022, 11:52:19 am »

The article states that Flores coached well and only people who didn't follow the team could say something like that. Horrible clock management, clueless with challenges, team consistently getting blown out by better competition into Year 3 of the rebuild.

I can understand people who didn't think he deserved to be fired but that article is only faulting him for not playing politics and that's crazy.
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 12:16:30 pm »

^ This is so much of what I feel, as well.

I watch these games every week.  Most of us do -- and we're on here bitching about Flores fucking shit up damn near every week.  I think the majority of people who are taunting Flores don't live in this market and actually have access to watch all the games.

His gameday management has been outright bad.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2022, 12:28:21 pm »

Everyone but Dolphin fans:. He is pretty good. He is the best coach the Dolphins have had since Shula.

Dolphin fans: He stinks, he is no where close to Shula, and that is the standard by which we judge coaching.
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Dolfanalyst
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 12:37:45 pm »

^ This is so much of what I feel, as well.

I watch these games every week.  Most of us do -- and we're on here bitching about Flores fucking shit up damn near every week.  I think the majority of people who are taunting Flores don't live in this market and actually have access to watch all the games.

His gameday management has been outright bad.

That can work both ways, as putting the team under a microscope can cause either 1) a more accurate appraisal of it, or 2) loads of confirmation bias, as people believe something about the team and then start to "see" it repeatedly, while failing to see evidence to the contrary, thus "confirming" and strengthening their belief although possibly inaccurately.

If possibility #2 is occurring, then it's possible a fan of another team could have a more objective and accurate viewpoint.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 12:41:31 pm »

Well I can't say that my opinion is the same as the authors of Flores as a coach, but I agreed with a lot of what was said. I do think he wasn't necessarily a bad coach, just inexperienced and it showed a lot of times.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 12:47:58 pm »

Everyone but Dolphin fans:. He is pretty good. He is the best coach the Dolphins have had since Shula.

Dolphin fans: He stinks, he is no where close to Shula, and that is the standard by which we judge coaching.
To be fair I think Dolphins fans have a little better idea of what Flores was actually like than most fans who don't watch the games and just see the record and nothing else. Also I think Dolphins fans expect more of the Dolphins than the average NFL fan. To most in the NFL the Dolphins have become a laughing stock and a 9-8 season is something to be applauded, whereas most of the people here remember when the Dolphins actually were relevant and the playoffs were the standard by which the team was judged and they still believe that is the standard to which the Dolphins should be held. In my opinion if you aren't judging success by that standard, then you have set the bar too low. I won't do that and I think most of us here won't do that.

Also one of the things that keeps coming up is the lack of talent on the team the first year with Flores as head coach, what they fail to remember is that Flores traded Tunsil and Minkah Fitzpatrick, 2 of it's best players for draft picks. That WAS the plan. Flores WAS responsible for that lack of talent or at the very least for some of the lack of talent. He DOESN'T get a pass for this. Sure, I get why he did it, but you can't just say well the team was bad and so it doesn't count against him, no it counts against him alright because he orchestrated how bad the team was. Most people are forgetting that. He did it so that after a few years with all those draft picks the team would be good and he has replaced a lot of the talent, but the team really hasn't gotten any better. It's about on par record wise the last 3 years as the 3 years prior to him coming to the Dolphins so ultimately he failed to do what he set out to do which was rebuild the team. We could have kept Gase and gotten about the same record, thats not exactly an endorsement.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 01:02:45 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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Dave Gray
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2022, 01:15:08 pm »

I think that we're getting gaslit as fans.  The Dolphins were over/under 9.5 wins prior to the start of the season....supposed to be the 10th-12th best team in the league.  We were expected to make the playoffs.

We're not that.  We underachieved from what those masses expected us to be.  Now the masses are calling Flores an overachiever.

Browse the expectations of us in these threads:
http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26759.0
http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26768.msg377099#msg377099
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Pappy13
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2022, 02:32:05 pm »

More analysis of the Flores firing. I will caveat this by saying this is all based on the presumption that Flores did not want Tua, he wanted Herbert. I'm not quite sure where that's coming from as I haven't really heard that although it's been suggested a couple of times and it did SEEM like Flores was not enamored with Tua, but we don't really know how he felt about Justin Herbert. If he felt that strongly then based on everything else I've heard, I feel confident they would have drafted Herbert and they didn't so I have a hard time believing that's the case, but regardless it was pretty clear that once Flores had a chance to work with Tua, he wasn't all that fond of him as his QB.

More Brian Flores firing Analysis
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 03:21:24 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2022, 02:48:19 pm »

Flores has unquestionably undermined Tua from the start.  This has been pretty obvious and already well-documented by the national media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7z5GnfaG7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbPCl0ooAI

And this is without getting into any Watson or Herbert stuff.

Whether Flores did want Tua or didn't want him, his coaching decisions regarding Tua were almost the worst possible choices at every junction.  Whether you are pro- or anti-Tua, is there anyone who can seriously say that they agree with how Tua has been handled?
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2022, 02:52:22 pm »

More analysis of the Flores firing. I will caveat this by saying this is all based on the presumption that Flores did not want Tua, he wanted Herbert. I'm not quite sure where that's coming from as I haven't really heard that although it's been suggested a couple of times and it did SEEM like Flores was not enamored with Tua, but we don't really know how he felt about Justin Herbert. If he felt that strongly then based on everything else I've heard, I feel confident they would have drafted Herbert and they didn't so I have a hard believing that's the case, but regardless it was pretty clear that once Flores had a chance to work with Tua, he wasn't all that fond of him as his QB.

More Brian Flores firing Analysis


If the issue was Grier wanted Tau and Flores wanted Hebert, the Dolphins shouldn’t have fired Flores for Tau’s failure, but fired Grier and put Flores in charge of personal decisions.  This is like firing the one scout in KC who thought the chiefs should take Marino over Blackridge.  Or the Jets scout that wanted Brady over Pennington. Okay maybe not quite that extreme.  Hebert is better than Tau, but this isn’t Manning vs Leaf.  But still Hebert was the choice.  If  Flores saw that he should be making the personal decisions rather than get fired for it.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2022, 02:59:52 pm »

If the issue was Grier wanted Tau and Flores wanted Hebert, the Dolphins shouldn’t have fired Flores for Tau’s failure, but fired Grier and put Flores in charge of personal decisions.  This is like firing the one scout in KC who thought the chiefs should take Marino over Blackridge.  Or the Jets scout that wanted Brady over Pennington. Okay maybe not quite that extreme.  Hebert is better than Tau, but this isn’t Manning vs Leaf.  But still Hebert was the choice.  If  Flores saw that he should be making the personal decisions rather than get fired for it.
I can't take you seriously when you call them Tau and Hebert.
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dolphins4life
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2022, 03:05:16 pm »

Let's compare to Gase and Tannehill.

Tannehill found success after leaving Miami.

Gase found none.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2022, 03:05:30 pm »

Flores has unquestionably undermined Tua from the start.  This has been pretty obvious and already well-documented by the national media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7z5GnfaG7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbPCl0ooAI

And this is without getting into any Watson or Herbert stuff.

Whether Flores did want Tua or didn't want him, his coaching decisions regarding Tua were almost the worst possible choices at every junction.  Whether you are pro- or anti-Tua, is there anyone who can seriously say that they agree with how Tua has been handled?

Or maybe Flores was put in a situation that was destine to fail…….

Flores to Grier:  I have absolutely no confidence in Tua’s ability to play at the NFL level, he was great at the college level, but I don’t think he has what it takes to play at the NFL level.  Herbert on the other hand has all the tools needed to be a superbowl winning QB.

Grier: To effing bad, I make the personal decisions, figure out how to win with Tua.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2022, 03:12:25 pm »

Flores didn't get along with GM, QB, his assistant coaches, the people in the building, and he constantly disrespected to people like Ross and Tom Garfinkel. Even if you think he was good at coaching it really doesn't matter if he was a good coach or not. He didn't fit in with the organization.

We all saw he wasn't very good as a game day coach and it didn't appear he was getting any better.

BTW .. why has no one mentoned that we were worse in year three than year two? In fact the only reason we were better than 8-8 was because we had an extra game.
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