This is fair

[Pappy13]

Virtually no one in the media thought that Herbert was more talented than Tua, only that he was more durable.  Now, if you want to make the argument that Tua's durability is holding the Dolphins back, go right ahead!  He has missed time in both seasons so far, and given how terrible the Dolphins' OL has been, anyone behind center is going to face a higher risk of injury than normal, so durability might be a high priority.

QB size and mobility are directly linked to a QB's durability in my opinion. For me, Herbert had qualities (size and mobility) that Tua didn't have that would tend to make him more durable. That combined with the injury history of both players, I thought Herbert was absolutely the better player to take from that standpoint and I think that's what you are seeing in all the above analysis. Durability is certainly one factor that should be taken into consideration when discussing any player's draft position in my opinion. Arm strength and durability I'm sure played a LOT into the analysis of both players and why there were some that had Herbert higher on their draft board. There would not have been as many questions about Tua's durability had he not been hurt in his senior year, but to say that durability was the only issue is not telling the whole story.

As far as what's holding Miami back, Tua missing time at QB has certainly hurt and I think concerns with Tua's durability combined with the offensive line problems when he is playing certainly played a role into deciding to run more RPO offense than perhaps they would have with another QB and I think that too has played a part. I've never been an advocate of the RPO offense.

[Spider-Dan]

Again, if you want to make the argument for Herbert on size or durability, feel free!  It's obvious that Herbert is bigger, and he's clearly had fewer injuries.

But virtually everyone evaluated Tua as the more talented QB.  So if you're saying that MIA should have picked Herbert based on talent, that is a purely hindsight-based evaluation.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Again, if you want to make the argument for Herbert on size or durability, feel free!  It's obvious that Herbert is bigger, and he's clearly had fewer injuries.

But virtually everyone evaluated Tua as the more talented QB.  So if you're saying that MIA should have picked Herbert based on talent, that is a purely hindsight-based evaluation.

Yeah, I don't remember many peope on here and on TV saying that Herbert was going to be better than Tua based off of talent. Physical attributes of course but not talent. There were some though on here, maybe 2-3 but even that seemed to be more fearful of Tua's injury history than Herbert being great.

[Pappy13]

Yeah, I don't remember many peope on here and on TV saying that Herbert was going to be better than Tua based off of talent. Physical attributes of course but not talent. There were some though on here, maybe 2-3 but even that seemed to be more fearful of Tua's injury history than Herbert being great.

Not even I expected Herbert to play as well as he has (same for Burrow as a matter of fact) but on the other hand I was not impressed with Tua like most people were. I NEVER suggested we should tank for Tua. I wouldn't have taken him #5 overall even if he was never injured. By the time of the draft, taking durability questions out of the equation, I would have ranked them Burrow, Herbert and then Tua and had both Burrow and Herbert close and Tua a little further back. So maybe the difference between you and I was not so much where I had Herbert ranked but what I thought of Tua. I was NOT high on him at all and in my opinion he's done nothing in the 2 years with Miami to change my mind on that. He's not a franchise QB. He was great in college because of where he played and who he played with, but I didn't think it would translate well to the NFL and in my opinion it hasn't. Herbert and Burrow both in my opinion would translate much better to the NFL game and they have.

I'm willing to concede that my opinion was in the minority, but there's no way that I was the ONLY one that thought this way. I've produced a video before the draft of one analyst who agreed with my opinion and I posted that here at the time. I've also shown a pre-draft poll that showed about 25% of the people wanted Herbert over Tua. I have no idea how many wanted him merely because of Tua's injury status, but it still shows that there were doubts about Tua before the draft and support for Herbert. Spider can deny this all he wants, he's simply wrong.

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26150.msg366557#msg366557

[Spider-Dan]

I do not deny that, on planet Earth, there was a non-zero number of people who wanted Herbert over Tua, so it was not literally "everyone."
I would imagine that there were a similar number of Bengals fans who wanted Tua (or Herbert) over Burrow.
There are always contrarians who want whatever they want.

[Dave Gray]

I find the whole exercise of who would've taken who to be valueless.

Even if one person would've taken Herbert over Tua against conventional wisdom, it doesn't really say anything about that person.  It's just throwing darts in the dark.  Just because that person would've made that call, it could've just as easily blown up in their face and it's not indicative of future success.

We also don't know how Herbert would have played for us or how Tua would've played for some other team.  There are just so many variables.

[Pappy13]

Even if one person would've taken Herbert over Tua against conventional wisdom, it doesn't really say anything about that person.  It's just throwing darts in the dark.  Just because that person would've made that call, it could've just as easily blown up in their face and it's not indicative of future success.

I completely agree with you Dave that this does not indicate anything especially as far as future predictions go. It was merely a shot in the dark as you have put it. On the other hand I think it's wrong for someone to question my integrity. Spider is not simply saying he disagrees with me, he's saying that I'm lieing about what I believed. That's questioning my integrity and I'm going to defend myself in that case, so while you may not see any value in that, I certainly do. He doesn't have to believe me and I really don't care if he doesn't, but I won't simply sit back and let him call me a liar on these forums. He either stops doing that or I'm going to continue to defend myself.

[Spider-Dan]

To be perfectly honest, I don't particularly care what you truly believed in your heart of hearts or whatever.  I'm just tired of you continually trying to throw Justin Herbert in our faces when you said you were perfectly fine with passing on him on draft day.

Stop trying to claim credit for Being Right About Justin Herbert and I don't really have much else to say to you on the subject.