Clemens and Bonds in Last Bids for Hall of Fame

[EDGECRUSHER]

This is the final year for Bonds and Clemens to make the Hall of Fame. I don't know how I feel about either. What I do know is before Bonds took an entire town's supply of steroids, he was a Hall of Famer. Just an amazing player. High OBP every year, Homeruns, he could do it all except throw. However, his numbers went from HoF to Videogame once he started taking steroids and grew 3 hat sizes. No one turns 35, gains 30 pounds of muscle and then hits a HR every other at bat. I know a lot of guys took steroids but he took it to such a level that it basically made Congress hold sham hearings about steroids. Don't get me started on his illegal elbow pad either.

So, does Bonds get in because he had HoF numbers before streoids or should he be kept out for cheating? Just for reference, here are his career stats. You can clearly see what they became after he "started to work out more".

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml

[Pappy13]

They should both get in on their final year of eligibility. Enough has been done to make the point, now it's time to put in those that are deserving. Sure they cheated as did many others and yes maybe they wouldn't have been as dominate if they didn't cheat, but I think they still would have been hall of fame worthy. Time to let this issue die.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[ArtieChokePhin]

If they let them in, they have to let Pete Rose in as well.   Time to let his gambling issue die.   

That being said, I don't think the writers will let them in.   I think the Veteran's Committee will wait until they pass away and then have them inducted post-humously.

[EDGECRUSHER]

If they let them in, they have to let Pete Rose in as well.   Time to let his gambling issue die.   

That being said, I don't think the writers will let them in.   I think the Veteran's Committee will wait until they pass away and then have them inducted post-humously.

Yeah, I think so too. The writers would have to explain why they weren't worthy for 9 years but are now. I can see one or two switching but I think they need quite a few.

[CF DolFan]

If they let them in, they have to let Pete Rose in as well.   Time to let his gambling issue die.  

I totally agree. He didn't cheat to get his stats.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I totally agree. He didn't cheat to get his stats.

Biggest crime in sports that he isn't in. Most untouchable record of all-time. Gretzky's record might fall to Ovechkin but the hit record never will. A guy has to have 21 seasons of 200 hits and still play a 22nd to get a few more.

[Dave Gray]

All of those juiced up players should be in.  It was an era where lots of their competition was juiced too and the league knew about it.

The time to deal with that was when it was happening.  Let them all in.  This whole shit is dumb.

[Spider-Dan]

This whole steroids argument against Bonds, Clemens, and the like is pretty silly.

So Barry Bonds' numbers shouldn't count because he had an unfair advantage against the John Rockers pitching to him and the Sammy Sosas in the field trying to throw him out.  Likewise, Roger Clemens' numbers shouldn't count because he had an unfair advantage against the Jason Giambis and Ken Caminitis he was facing on the mound.

It's ridiculous.  They were all juicing.  Who cares?

[dolphins4life]

Which record is more untouchable.

Cy Young's 511 wins

or

Pete Rose's hits record

[CF DolFan]

All of those juiced up players should be in.  It was an era where lots of their competition was juiced too and the league knew about it.

The time to deal with that was when it was happening.  Let them all in.  This whole shit is dumb.

It comes down to inflated stats. Stats are big in baseball. If it had only made them better but not inflated their stats they might be in by now. Hard for a generation that rewards integrity (just like Shula not respecting BB) to reward guys who cheated to get those stats. The biggest stat of all is home run king and I know plenty of people who do not recognize Bonds as that guy.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Which record is more untouchable.

Cy Young's 511 wins

or

Pete Rose's hits record

That wins record is nuts, you may actually be right on that. I don't think either will ever be broken but during Cy Young's time pitchers started and finished games and they pitched a lot. Less strain on the arms too since they didn't have sliders and splitters to throw. Pete Rose has a modern day record, Cy Young is from a different era that hasn't been like this one in 60 years at least.

[Dave Gray]

The game has changed so much.

The wins record, the hits record, but also Ripkin's consecutive game record.  It's just a different era.  It's not just that it won't be broken, it's that it's not possible for it to be broken. 

None of them are touchable and it won't be close.

[Spider-Dan]

Pete Rose's record isn't untouchable at all.  Ichiro would have broken it rather easily if Japanese players were able to come over to MLB earlier.

[Dave Gray]

It comes down to inflated stats. Stats are big in baseball. If it had only made them better but not inflated their stats they might be in by now. Hard for a generation that rewards integrity (just like Shula not respecting BB) to reward guys who cheated to get those stats. The biggest stat of all is home run king and I know plenty of people who do not recognize Bonds as that guy.

Yeah, but the environment in which they played, that's the reality.  The MLB had people juicing for decades, so what can you do?  ....just erase decades of the sport from the books? 

It's not like only Bonds was juicing and got caught -- his competition was juicing, too.

Again, the MLB knew and hid this.  It's so hypocritical to try to punish these guys now.

I don't even care -- baseball is a sport for old farts that gets more irrelevant by the day.  They are so archaic and fail to update.  Deuces.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Yeah, but the environment in which they played, that's the reality.  The MLB had people juicing for decades, so what can you do?  ....just erase decades of the sport from the books? 

It's not like only Bonds was juicing and got caught -- his competition was juicing, too.

Again, the MLB knew and hid this.  It's so hypocritical to try to punish these guys now.

I don't even care -- baseball is a sport for old farts that gets more irrelevant by the day.  They are so archaic and fail to update.  Deuces.

Good points. MLB is losing me more and more because I am a Yankees fan and I am seeing the game be more about their Balance Sheet instead of their on the field product. I know it's a business but I don't hear about the Miami Dolphins or New York Rangers talking about money, only the games played.

If they lose games played this year or even the whole season due to a strike, I think they're in trouble with ratings and attendance.