Flores Addresses His Relationship with Tua

[Dolfanalyst]

I disagree. There is no way he comes off looking like a fool by playing Rosen over Fitz or not winning. First off we were building for the future and we all know Fitz isn't that guy. He's an interesting back-up if needed.

Secondly we desmantled this team one week before the season and continued to do so for weeks after starting. No one was expecting us to win and in fact many of the talking heads worried for the safety of our players becuase they supposedly were practice squad players.

After that season the refrain about Flores was how well he did with that sad sack of a team.  So he accomplished exactly what he set out to do -- establish a reputation for himself as a quality head coach (to the degree possible in only a year under those circumstances).  If that was his goal, how you can possibly question what he did when it accomplished exactly what he apparently intended?

Just because the organization's goal was apparently losing doesn't mean that had to be Flores's goal as well.  Again, if you want to lose and you want a first-time head coach to go along with it, then hire a patsy you plan to fire after the year, not a guy trying to establish a reputation for himself as a quality head coach.

The measure of a head coach is always going to be how much more or less he's extracting from the talent he's given.  Flores was given garbage and extracted five wins out of it as a first-year head coach.  People marveled at that at the time and he was seen as an up-and-coming head coach because of it.  If he sticks with Rosen and goes 1-15 (or thereabouts) he establishes nothing for his reputation or career.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Again, the owner and GM had a strategy to rack up draft picks and get a franchise QB with the top pick in the draft. Flores decided he knew better .. they gave him 2 more years after that to prove it and he failed to make the playoffs in those 2 years, meanwhile the guy he literally gave up (because he knew better) took a team to the superbowl.

What more needs to be said here?

Rosen has proven to be shit, but he was not given a real shot in our "Tank for Tua" season and that's all on Flores. Management should've told him he needs at least 5-6 full games before an evaluation can be made.

[Dolfanalyst]

Rosen has proven to be shit, but he was not given a real shot in our "Tank for Tua" season and that's all on Flores. Management should've told him he needs at least 5-6 full games before an evaluation can be made.

So on the one hand Rosen has "proven to be shit," but instead of sticking a feather in Flores's cap for recognizing that and making a move to the better QB he had available to him, we're blaming him for something regarding Rosen?  Isn't it a part of these guys' jobs to use a smaller sample of games than would be necessary for a layman to determine when a player is inadequate?  I mean if they can't do that kind of thing any better than you and me, what are we paying them for?  What exactly is their expertise if it isn't in part to identify inadequate talent and replace it ASAP?

[CF DolFan]

So on the one hand Rosen has "proven to be shit," but instead of sticking a feather in Flores's cap for recognizing that and making a move to the better QB he had available to him, we're blaming him for something regarding Rosen?  Isn't it a part of these guys' jobs to use a smaller sample of games than would be necessary for a layman to determine when a player is inadequate?  I mean if they can't do that kind of thing any better than you and me, what are we paying them for?  What exactly is their expertise if it isn't in part to identify inadequate talent and replace it ASAP?

We get it. You either can't or won't see any gray areas. Life for most of us isn't so black and white with numerical outputs. We live in the gray area and sway towards the black and white as the situation warrants it. We, as well as many hosts during the time, felt we would have benitted from not playing to the best of our abilities.

[Dolfanalyst]

We get it. You either can't or won't see any gray areas. Life for most of us isn't so black and white with numerical outputs. We live in the gray area and sway towards the black and white as the situation warrants it. We, as well as many hosts during the time, felt we would have benitted from not playing to the best of our abilities.

There isn't a single number I've used in this discussion to illustrate the inherent conflict between an organization's trying to lose, with a head coach who's trying to win.  You're simply trying to negate my point of view by pigeonholing what I've said into a category you're discounting, when nothing I've said here belongs in that category.

I would've liked for the team to have lost every game that year and gotten the #1 overall pick and Joe Burrow as well, but I can certainly appreciate how that wasn't the fault of Brian Flores, a guy who was simply doing his job and doing the best he could to advance his reputation and his career.

[pondwater]

There isn't a single number I've used in this discussion to illustrate the inherent conflict between an organization's trying to lose, with a head coach who's trying to win.  You're simply trying to negate my point of view by pigeonholing what I've said into a category you're discounting, when nothing I've said here belongs in that category.

I would've liked for the team to have lost every game that year and gotten the #1 overall pick and Joe Burrow as well, but I can certainly appreciate how that wasn't the fault of Brian Flores, a guy who was simply doing his job and doing the best he could to advance his reputation and his career.

His job is to do what he's told by the people that pay him. That's literally how a job works. I highly doubt that ownership and management didn't tell him their plan before they hired him. And if not, he should have resigned when he found out.

[Dolfanalyst]

His job is to do what he's told by the people that pay him. That's literally how a job works. I highly doubt that ownership and management didn't tell him their plan before they hired him. And if not, he should have resigned when he found out.

If it's true that Ross offered him $100K per loss, it doesn't sound like he was made aware of the plan, because if he was it would've been understood that the salary he was already making was the compensation for implementing that plan, and no additional monetary incentive would've been needed.

Whether he should've resigned or not doesn't nullify the fact that there was an inherent conflict between an organization trying to lose and a head coach trying to win.  That conflict was the central problem, and that was the organization's fault, not Flores's.  If you want the team to lose, hire a head coach you're going to fire after a year and equip him with so little talent he can't possibly win.  Don't hire a guy who's trying to make a name for himself and become a successful head coach.

[EDGECRUSHER]

So on the one hand Rosen has "proven to be shit," but instead of sticking a feather in Flores's cap for recognizing that and making a move to the better QB he had available to him, we're blaming him for something regarding Rosen?  Isn't it a part of these guys' jobs to use a smaller sample of games than would be necessary for a layman to determine when a player is inadequate?  I mean if they can't do that kind of thing any better than you and me, what are we paying them for?  What exactly is their expertise if it isn't in part to identify inadequate talent and replace it ASAP?

Rosen has proven to be shit AFTER Miami had him by many factors, such as his on field play and inability to even get on the field elsewhere. Miami spent good draft capital on him and not only did Flores not even start him in Week 1, he gave him 2.5 games before getting the boot despite similar numbers to Fitzpatrick in that small sample size.

Flores ignored the plan to see what they had in Rosen because he wanted to win meaningless games with a 37 year old. Terrible decision by him and it did cost us the #1 pick. Hindsight is 20/20 and even if we drafted Burrow who is to say that we go to the Superbowl this year, but we didn't draft the best QB available(which was supposed to be Tua but plans change) because Flores was an idiot.

[Spider-Dan]

As I've said before: complaining about the 2019 record and 2020 draft is really pointless.  If Flores tanks correctly and Tua doesn't get injured, there's an excellent chance MIA takes Tua with the #1 pick anyway!

[Dolfanalyst]

Rosen has proven to be shit AFTER Miami had him by many factors, such as his on field play and inability to even get on the field elsewhere. Miami spent good draft capital on him and not only did Flores not even start him in Week 1, he gave him 2.5 games before getting the boot despite similar numbers to Fitzpatrick in that small sample size.

Flores ignored the plan to see what they had in Rosen because he wanted to win meaningless games with a 37 year old. Terrible decision by him and it did cost us the #1 pick. Hindsight is 20/20 and even if we drafted Burrow who is to say that we go to the Superbowl this year, but we didn't draft the best QB available(which was supposed to be Tua but plans change) because Flores was an idiot.

If you were the owner or GM of an NFL team and your goal was to lose to obtain the #1 overall pick in the draft, what measures would you take to ensure the head coach couldn't function in a way that would undermine that goal?

It's very simple -- you hire a head coach you're going to fire after the year and equip him with so little talent that it doesn't matter what his goal is.  Even if he tries to win, he can't possibly be competitive with the talent with which you've equipped him, and your goal is easily reached.

The idiocy is not in Brian Flores for prioritizing his reputation and his career -- the idiocy is in the team brass who couldn't create a situation in which that didn't matter.  Brian Flores is quite the intelligent guy for pulling off a year in which his coaching reputation was enhanced despite that the most powerful levers within the organization were apparently functioning with the opposite goal in mind.

[Fau Teixeira]

If you were the owner or GM of an NFL team and your goal was to lose to obtain the #1 overall pick in the draft, what measures would you take to ensure the head coach couldn't function in a way that would undermine that goal?

It's very simple -- you hire a head coach you're going to fire after the year and equip him with so little talent that it doesn't matter what his goal is.  Even if he tries to win, he can't possibly be competitive with the talent with which you've equipped him, and your goal is easily reached.

The idiocy is not in Brian Flores for prioritizing his reputation and his career -- the idiocy is in the team brass who couldn't create a situation in which that didn't matter.  Brian Flores is quite the intelligent guy for pulling off a year in which his coaching reputation was enhanced despite that the most powerful levers within the organization were apparently functioning with the opposite goal in mind.

Sure that makes sense if you disagreed with the approach and were looking out for yourself to the detriment of the team you're coaching. If instead you were on board and pulling in the same direction, then you'd probably still be the head coach of a more successful team. Maybe the problem is the lack of teamwork overall, like was noted when he was fired.

[Dolfanalyst]

Sure that makes sense if you disagreed with the approach and were looking out for yourself to the detriment of the team you're coaching. If instead you were on board and pulling in the same direction, then you'd probably still be the head coach of a more successful team. Maybe the problem is the lack of teamwork overall, like was noted when he was fired.

Or not.  Would take that risk with your career?  There was no guarantee this organization was going to enable Flores to showcase his ability at any point, and there was no guarantee Flores was going to be kept after his first year.  The Texans just fired David Culley after one year for example.

As it is, Flores turned in three years of extracting better than expected performance from the talent this team had.  This team just had zero players with any votes for the NFL all-pro team, one of only three teams in the league of that kind.  The others were the Lions (3-13-1) and the Giants (4-13).  Flores somehow made a team with similar talent finish 9-8, after extracting better than expected performance from the team his previous two years as well.

Flores looks like a genius surrounded by incompetence here.

[pondwater]

Or not.  Would take that risk with your career?  There was no guarantee this organization was going to enable Flores to showcase his ability at any point, and there was no guarantee Flores was going to be kept after his first year.  The Texans just fired David Culley after one year for example.

As it is, Flores turned in three years of extracting better than expected performance from the talent this team had.  This team just had zero players with any votes for the NFL all-pro team, one of only three teams in the league of that kind.  The others were the Lions (3-13-1) and the Giants (4-13).  Flores somehow made a team with similar talent finish 9-8, after extracting better than expected performance from the team his previous two years as well.

Flores looks like a genius surrounded by incompetence here.

LMFAO yeah, so much of a genius that after 3 years he had a worse record than the year before, lost 7 straight, and missed expectations for the year. Including botching several games that they could have won with horrible HC decisions. Even losing to the worst team in the league.

Speaking of the worst team. It's also surprising that you keep mentioning that stupid all-pro team stat. I notice you didn't mention Jacksonville as one of the teams in that ridiculous stat. I wonder why? Does that mean that Jacksonville was a better team than the Dolphins? No, it means nothing. Maybe ask yourself how all-pro is decided?

[Dolfanalyst]

LMFAO yeah, so much of a genius that after 3 years he had a worse record than the year before, lost 7 straight, and missed expectations for the year. Including botching several games that they could have won with horrible HC decisions. Even losing to the worst team in the league.

Speaking of the worst team. It's also surprising that you keep mentioning that stupid all-pro team stat. I notice you didn't mention Jacksonville as one of the teams in that ridiculous stat. I wonder why? Does that mean that Jacksonville was a better team than the Dolphins? No, it means nothing. Maybe ask yourself how all-pro is decided?

Listen bud, I'm going to pretend like your posts don't exist from now on.  You don't carry yourself in a way I'm interested in engaging with.  You take care and have a wonderful life.

[pondwater]

Listen bud, I'm going to pretend like your posts don't exist from now on.  You don't carry yourself in a way I'm interested in engaging with.  You take care and have a wonderful life.

Yeah that's what thought. But then again, it's a forum to discuss things. So feel free and don't discuss things. That's what people do when their opinions don't line up with reality. It says a lot about your character and silly opinions. Peace out bro, lol.....