Russia's invasion of Ukraine

[Downunder Dolphan]

If WW3 starts, one of the first nations to get slaughtered will be Ukraine.

You don't take direct action against Russian assets in Ukraine, period.

It's a classic damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

Ukraine is such an important country to Russia if you look at it in a purely military scale - the naval ports to the south that don't freeze over in winter, and the direct route to the south of western Europe opens up future points of attack. Without them the only direct routes are through Belarus and northern Russia, the really long way around. In short, I just can't see Putin stopping until Ukraine is under his full control.

There has now been so much support from the west for Ukraine's fight, lethal aid as well as non-lethal, and the sanctions will be beginning to bite. Putin and his friends will personally be losing billions of dollars each week this conflict is extended - this is the most dangerous man in the world who will have a huge personal grudge, and we have seen in the past how he has reacted. With lethal, illegal and immoral force. Quite simply, the west just cannot allow Ukraine to fall. 

[Spider-Dan]

Downunder Dolphan, you might be out of the loop, but conservatives in America believe that Australia (COVID deaths per million: 202.9) has been a complete failure on COVID, while the state of Florida (COVID deaths per million: 3270.7) is an inspiring COVID success story.  There isn't really much you can say to convince them otherwise.

There has now been so much support from the west for Ukraine's fight, lethal aid as well as non-lethal, and the sanctions will be beginning to bite. Putin and his friends will personally be losing billions of dollars each week this conflict is extended - this is the most dangerous man in the world who will have a huge personal grudge, and we have seen in the past how he has reacted. With lethal, illegal and immoral force. Quite simply, the west just cannot allow Ukraine to fall. 

I wouldn't agree that we "cannot allow" Ukraine to fall; as undesirable as it may be, it's not worth starting WW3 over.  But I think it's clear that as long as Putin controls Kyiv, Russia's economy will be absolutely crippled and Russia will be a pariah on the world stage.  Or, as others have put it:

[Downunder Dolphan]

Downunder Dolphan, you might be out of the loop, but conservatives in America believe that Australia (COVID deaths per million: 202.9) has been a complete failure on COVID, while the state of Florida (COVID deaths per million: 3270.7) is an inspiring COVID success story.  There isn't really much you can say to convince them otherwise.

I'm fully aware of what US conservatives think - I get my news from a lot of different sources to make an informed judgement, unlike what someone here says of me... 

[Downunder Dolphan]

I wouldn't agree that we "cannot allow" Ukraine to fall; as undesirable as it may be, it's not worth starting WW3 over. 

The awful question no one wants to openly talk about is whether things have gone beyond the tipping point and WW3 is inevitable. If that's the case, then it's vital that Ukraine stays out of Russia's grasp for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

No one in the west wants WW3, and all the moves to date have been tiptoeing around that - hoping that Russia wouldn't invade, and now hoping that Russia withdraws without committing NATO troops. If Putin is as unhinged as we fear, it mightn't matter.

[Spider-Dan]

If WW3 happens, it doesn't really matter if Ukraine "falls" to Russia, as most of eastern Europe, northern Asia, and North America will be radioactive glass.

[Downunder Dolphan]

If WW3 happens, it doesn't really matter if Ukraine "falls" to Russia, as most of eastern Europe, northern Asia, and North America will be radioactive glass.

Very true, if it degenerates to a nuclear conflict and China gets involved.

There's still the possibility it will primarily remain as conventional warfare in Europe, in which case that territory may matter.

[ArtieChokePhin]

Downunder Dolphan, you might be out of the loop, but conservatives in America believe that Australia (COVID deaths per million: 202.9) has been a complete failure on COVID, while the state of Florida (COVID deaths per million: 3270.7) is an inspiring COVID success story.  There isn't really much you can say to convince them otherwise.

I'm fully aware of what US conservatives think - I get my news from a lot of different sources to make an informed judgement, unlike what someone here says of me... 

How funny that since this conflict began, there has been zero talk of COVID cases or fear of new outbreaks.

[Spider-Dan]

That line would work a little better if you guys weren't previously claiming that everyone would forget about COVID as soon as Biden took office.

People aren't talking as much about COVID now because we are on the downswing of the Omicron variant outbreak.  But if there's another variant outbreak, don't worry... y'all will still be insisting that there's nothing to see here and this is not a big deal, even when we have over 2000 people dying from COVID daily.

On the bright side, the existence of this war has also put a pause on Republicans screaming that a wave of immigrants is ready to storm our southern border, and has also apprarently reduced the grave threat to our republic raised by Critical Race Theory.  Funny how a major war focuses the discourse, isn't it?

[Dave Gray]

Seeing this unfold makes me so angry that I'd back pretty much any crazy shit to stop it, against better judgement.

I don't want to start WW3 obviously, but WW3 isn't the world vs. Russia.  They'd have to have other countries join on to fight -- namely China, N. Korea.

Why have NATO if not to stop stuff like this?  Part of me just wants to go in while Russia's forces are stuck out of the country and blow up all of Moscow.

[Spider-Dan]

Why have NATO if not to stop stuff like this?

To stop nuclear wars.

The purpose of NATO was never to end all war; we've had several wars since NATO was formed.  NATO does serve to constrain wars of conquest, but it doesn't prevent all wars of conquest everywhere in the world.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Why have NATO if not to stop stuff like this?  Part of me just wants to go in while Russia's forces are stuck out of the country and blow up all of Moscow.

NATO is an alliance. Attacking a single NATO county is an attack on all.  Ukraine is not in NATO. 

Sadly, it is quite possible that this is Putin's Chezvica and WWIII begins in Europe the same way as WWII with the invasion of Poland.

[CF DolFan]

Seeing this unfold makes me so angry that I'd back pretty much any crazy shit to stop it, against better judgement.

I don't want to start WW3 obviously, but WW3 isn't the world vs. Russia.  They'd have to have other countries join on to fight -- namely China, N. Korea.

Why have NATO if not to stop stuff like this?  Part of me just wants to go in while Russia's forces are stuck out of the country and blow up all of Moscow.

Be careful Dave. You’re sounding like a conservative now. Haha Just kidding but I’m right there with you. We need special forces to take control of their nukes before we can do anything like that. Putin doesn’t have long to live so he’s crazy enough yo use them.

[Dave Gray]

I don't know if it's smart to cut off gas from there or not.  As long as it hurts them a lot worse than it hurts you, I guess it's worth it.  I'm just so angry that I'm willing to sacrifice.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I don't know if it's smart to cut off gas from there or not.  As long as it hurts them a lot worse than it hurts you, I guess it's worth it.  I'm just so angry that I'm willing to sacrifice.

Had Biden not put the brakes on American oil production, we wouldn't be hurting

[Spider-Dan]

What brakes did Biden put on American oil production?