Russia's invasion of Ukraine

[Spider-Dan]

Compare for a moment....

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/09/world/ukrainian-refugee-aid-poland-border-trnd/index.html

with

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/22/us/arizona-aid-volunteers-guilty-trespassing-trnd/index.html

These are two totally different scenarios.

One of them involves people who are leaving a dangerous and unstable environment that they have no control over, trying to salvage some safety in their lives for themselves and their children as they flee violence from a vicious psychopath their government is impotent to stop, and the inspiring efforts of their neighbors to help ease their harrowing journey as refugees under international law.

The other one involves white Europeans.

[CF DolFan]

Please provide sources for this claim.

Mike Sommers, the chief executive officer of the American Petroleum Institute, who was in Houston Monday for CERAWeek by S&P Global, said the industry is using a higher percentage of federal onshore and offshore leases than at any time in the past, and it’s continuing to increase production to meet surging demand.

The Biden administration has repeatedly pointed to the number of approved but untapped drilling permits on federal land when questioned about how U.S. production can rise, and what the federal government can do to help.

“There’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the administration as to how the process actually works,” Sommers said in an interview on the sidelines of the conference.


“Just because you have a lease doesn’t mean there’s actually oil and gas in that lease, and there has to be a lot of development that occurs between the leasing and then ultimately permitting for that acreage to be productive,” he said. “I think that they’re purposefully misusing the facts here to advantage their position.”https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-administration-misusing-facts-oil-203140624.html

In Nevada, some 900,000 acres of our state’s land are currently part of non-producing oil and gas leases, precluding other uses for the land. These leases are essentially pointless, given that our state is not known for being rich in oil resources. - https://www.rgj.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/06/15/dismantling-well-oiled-gas-leasing-machine-annette-magnus/7705244002/

Saw another article that said it could take 10 years to start drilling even if there is oil because of all the regulations they have to go through.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

About oil.  A few facts.

1.  There are plenty of existing oil and gas leases that are not being exercised.  The the decision not to drill is that of the oil companies that can buy the oil for the middle east for less than drill domestically.  Biden nor anyone else in the US government can change that.  

2. It has been US strategic policy since the at least the end of WWII to NOT exhaust out natural resources (be it energy or metals) if said items can be freely purchased from other countries.  For military purposes, it is in the US best interest not to sell and exhaust all of our oil reserves.  Hypothetically,  if the US was to completely ramp up domestic production to meet all of our needs and even become an exporter of oil.  That would be great for our economy in the short term.  However, there would come a time when we would run out of oil and be completely dependent on other countries for oil.  That would be a horrible position to be in.   On the other hand if we were to buy most of out energy and deplete our reserves slower than the world at large we would be at a huge advantage when supplies are extremely limited and we have most or all of the remaining supplies.  The current set up is designed not to deplete our resources but allow other countries to do so.  We produce just enough oil to keep our suppliers honest and not make oil prohibitively expensive for prolonged period because as the price of imported oil goes up the quantity of domestic oil produced increases bringing the price back in line.  As long as we have oil in the ground we are not truly at the mercy of OPEC or other oil exporting countries.  But if we were to follow the "drill baby drill" crowd it wouldn't be long before we were in fact completely dependent on other counties.  None of this has anything to do with global warming or the environment, but sound strategic policy.  

[Spider-Dan]

“Just because you have a lease doesn’t mean there’s actually oil and gas in that lease, and there has to be a lot of development that occurs between the leasing and then ultimately permitting for that acreage to be productive,” he said. “I think that they’re purposefully misusing the facts here to advantage their position.”

1) The oil & gas companies are the ones who applied for the lease in the first place, so they clearly saw some value in the land.
2) "We haven't started any of the development to begin extraction" does not really help the case of the leasing companies.  If they aren't developing the leases they already have, how would giving them more leases help?

In Nevada, some 900,000 acres of our state’s land are currently part of non-producing oil and gas leases, precluding other uses for the land. These leases are essentially pointless, given that our state is not known for being rich in oil resources.

Again, these leases - which, by definition, cost money - seem to be promising enough for the oil & gas companies to pay for them!

Saw another article that said it could take 10 years to start drilling even if there is oil because of all the regulations they have to go through.

Did that article happen to mention how long ago these companies received the leases?  I mean, the article you just linked cites a bill from over 2 years ago to curb these unused leases.

Y'all are arguing for more drilling to solve the problem RIGHT NOW, not 5 years from now.  But shouldn't we already be experiencing an oil boom from when the former guy took office 5 years ago and unshackled the drilling industry?

[CF DolFan]

Y'all are arguing for more drilling to solve the problem RIGHT NOW, not 5 years from now.  But shouldn't we already be experiencing an oil boom from when the former guy took office 5 years ago and unshackled the drilling industry?

No one knows what is there until they explore it. Can't do that without a lease.

As far a Trump we would be doing better if Biden didn't come in and put a moratorium on drilling. He even reversed his intial descision on the Keystone pipeline. We were expanding ad untying hands at a great rate. 

[Spider-Dan]

As far a Trump we would be doing better if Biden didn't come in and put a moratorium on drilling.

According to what you just said: if Biden had changed nothing, we wouldn't see any benefits until 9 years from now, because it takes 10 years to start producing.

He even reversed his intial descision on the Keystone pipeline. We were expanding ad untying hands at a great rate.

Keystone is a pipeline, not an oil field.
The oil is still being produced (by Canada, as was always the plan).

[Spider-Dan]

It has about as much relevance to this thread as dumping toxic waste into lake michigan.

And yet you don't see me repeatedly trying to redirect this thread about the war in Ukraine into a discussion about industrial pollution, like you are with the debt.
So, again, stay on topic or make a new thread.  You seem to enjoy repeating that demand at others!

And by the way, I'm still waiting you to explain your racist views in the other thread.

Just to clarify, are you talking about this thread where you claim that "people who say that biracial/multiracial people are black are racist" and Brian Flores is "more white than black"?

Is that the thread you're referring to?  Just making sure which thread you feel needs more sunlight.  Hard to keep track!

[Spider-Dan]

To get back on topic:

What does White and/or European have to do with anything?

Glad you asked.

“But this isn't a place, with all due respect, like Iraq or Afghanistan, that has seen conflict raging for decades. This is a relatively civilized, relatively European — I have to choose those words carefully, too — city, one where you wouldn’t expect that, or hope that it’s going to happen.”

“It’s very emotional for me because I see European people with blue eyes and blonde hair being killed”

"We are in the 21st century, we are in a European city and we have cruise missile fire as though we were in Iraq or Afghanistan, can you imagine!”

“They seem so like us. That is what makes it so shocking. War is no longer something visited upon impoverished and remote populations. It can happen to anyone.”

“What's compelling is, just looking at them, the way they are dressed, these are prosperous...I’m loath to use the expression... middle class people. These are not obviously refugees looking to get away from areas in the Middle East that are still in a big state of war. These are not people trying to get away from areas in North Africa. They look like any European family that you would live next door to.”

“We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin, we’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives.”

War and strife are things that are supposed to happen to brown people, not civilized white Europeans with blue eyes and blonde hair.  I mean, they look like they could be your neighbors!  It's shocking!

[Dave Gray]

Reminder to stop personal attacks and stay on topic.

[Tenshot13]

The way I see it, the ones I feel for the most are the citizens, the people that live there.  The Russian government needs no explanation, you can find any number of articles on what they are doing is wrong on so many levels.  The Ukrainian military is full of Nazis, but it's weird no one is talking about that, or if you do you're automatically a Russian sympathizer.

[Spider-Dan]

The Ukrainian military is full of Nazis, but it's weird no one is talking about that, or if you do you're automatically a Russian sympathizer.

The Ukrainian military is no more "full of Nazis" than our own military.  It's almost certainly less full of Nazis than our own law enforcement.

Putin's talking point about "de-Nazifying Ukraine" is pure, uncut propaganda.

1) In the most recent elections held in 2019, Ukraine's neo-Nazi party, Svoboda, received 2.15% of the popular vote in Ukraine's parliament, and 1.62% of the popular vote in the presidential election.
2) Ukraine is notable among Eastern Europe for their relative lack of anti-semitism:

Lastly, Zelenskyy himself is Jewish.  Putin's quest to "de-Nazify Ukraine" by... deposing and/or executing their democratically-elected Jewish president should make the absurdity of that claim transparent to all.

[Tenshot13]

The Ukrainian military is no more "full of Nazis" than our own military.  It's almost certainly less full of Nazis than our own law enforcement.

Putin's talking point about "de-Nazifying Ukraine" is pure, uncut propaganda.

1) In the most recent elections held in 2019, Ukraine's neo-Nazi party, Svoboda, received 2.15% of the popular vote in Ukraine's parliament, and 1.62% of the popular vote in the presidential election.
2) Ukraine is notable among Eastern Europe for their relative lack of anti-semitism:

Lastly, Zelenskyy himself is Jewish.  Putin's quest to "de-Nazify Ukraine" by... deposing and/or executing their democratically-elected Jewish president should make the absurdity of that claim transparent to all.

Far-Right Ukrainian Military Unit Teaches Children And Pensioners To Defend Their Country
https://www.rferl.org/a/far-right-ukrainian-military-unit-teaches-children-and-pensioners-to-defend-their-country/31703267.html

Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?
The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to become part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/who-are-the-azov-regiment

FACEBOOK ALLOWS PRAISE OF NEO-NAZI UKRAINIAN BATTALION IF IT FIGHTS RUSSIAN INVASION
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/

How a Far-Right Battalion Became a Part of Ukraine’s National Guard
https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ab7dw/azov-battalion-ukraine-far-right

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Far-Right Ukrainian Military Unit Teaches Children And Pensioners To Defend Their Country
https://www.rferl.org/a/far-right-ukrainian-military-unit-teaches-children-and-pensioners-to-defend-their-country/31703267.html

Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?
The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to become part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/who-are-the-azov-regiment

FACEBOOK ALLOWS PRAISE OF NEO-NAZI UKRAINIAN BATTALION IF IT FIGHTS RUSSIAN INVASION
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/

How a Far-Right Battalion Became a Part of Ukraine’s National Guard
https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ab7dw/azov-battalion-ukraine-far-right

There is a non-zero number of Nazi's in the Ukraine.  Three articles talking about one organization that numbers at 900 out of a population of over 43 million.  There is more justification for Mexico to invade Charlottesville, Virginia to de-nazifiy Charlottesville than for Russia to invade Ukraine. 

It is amazing to what contortions Trump supporters will go to to support Putin rather than the USA. 

[Tenshot13]

There is a non-zero number of Nazi's in the Ukraine.  Three articles talking about one organization that numbers at 900 out of a population of over 43 million.  There is more justification for Mexico to invade Charlottesville, Virginia to de-nazifiy Charlottesville than for Russia to invade Ukraine.  

It is amazing to what contortions Trump supporters will go to to support Putin rather than the USA.  

What does this bolded part mean.  Is this directed at me?  Because if it is, adjust your bifocals and scroll up to my original message.

BTW all three of those articles are from left leaning sources, so what you're saying doesn't make a lick of sense regarding Trump supporters.

[Dave Gray]

I don't think there's any legitimacy to suggest that Ukraine has a Nazi issue, as it relates to a war with Russia.  It would be like us getting invaded because we have a Nazi problem.  I won't disagree that we do have an issue with white supremacy and it's seeped into our institutions and politics, but it's nothing more than a fringe idea and certainly not justification for invasion from a foreign power.

Discussion of Nazism, as it relates to Ukraine and Russia, is propaganda for Russia to justify invasion.