Trevor Bauer Suspended Two Years

[Dave Gray]

I'm looking at it more from a legal standpoint because the truth is, no one will ever know what happened that night unless reports and exams were done immediately. All we have to go on is that this was a consensual pattern in their sexual relationship and with no other evidence, there can be no charges filed.

I understand your point and from a legal perspective, it's a he said/she said -- there is a legal standard of guilt that might not be met.  Nobody is arguing that.

Internal bylaws of a company don't have that same legal standard.  I don't know what the MLBs laws are or how hard the players union wants to fight or what -- but his legal guilt isn't related to how the company sees their name getting tarnished.  They may think that this dude is a dirtbag and that's enough to keep him out of the news for a couple of years.  I don't know what will stick to him and what won't, but discussing the legality of his allegations really aren't at play here.

[Dave Gray]

I realize there are many different factors in each situation but its kind of hard to buy it wasn't consensual when you went back for more. At best, it definitely makes it almost impossible to prove that it wasn't.

I don't mean to argue just to argue, but that's not how consent works.

You can have anal sex with someone yesterday.  They can offer to have anal sex with you tomorrow.  But you don't get to fuck someone's ass in perpetuity because they allowed it in the past and will allow it again in the future.  People's sexual-limit allowances are allowed to change day to day.

No means no -- if he violated that, it's sexual assault.

I'm not saying that he did or he didn't -- but just because someone allows something later doesn't mean it was consensual in the moment.

[CF DolFan]

I don't mean to argue just to argue, but that's not how consent works.

You can have anal sex with someone yesterday.  They can offer to have anal sex with you tomorrow.  But you don't get to fuck someone's ass in perpetuity because they allowed it in the past and will allow it again in the future.  People's sexual-limit allowances are allowed to change day to day.

No means no -- if he violated that, it's sexual assault.

I'm not saying that he did or he didn't -- but just because someone allows something later doesn't mean it was consensual in the moment.

I completely get consent but he is innocent unless she proves that he isn't. When she continues to stay in a relationship (regardless of the reason) where she had been raped/abused it makes it much harder to "prove" she wasn't consensual to it. When it comes to a he said/she said situation then circumstantial evidence is all you can go by.

[Dave Gray]

I completely get consent but he is innocent unless she proves that he isn't.

He isn't innocent.  He is "not guilty", from a purely US legal standpoint. 

But we aren't talking about a legal US court -- we are talking about MLB's internal standards.

[CF DolFan]

^^^ I was speaking legally and didn't mean to imply the guy didn't do anything wrong.

[EDGECRUSHER]

He isn't innocent.  He is "not guilty", from a purely US legal standpoint. 

But we aren't talking about a legal US court -- we are talking about MLB's internal standards.

Yeah, you're right, although I am shocked a powerful Union like the MLBPA allowed their players to get suspended and fined from accusations alone. That being said, this is going to get overruled based on the length of it alone. If they went for 30 games or something, he still fights it but maybe it stands because that's just 6 or 7 starts. 2 years is unprecedented in any sport and their own history of suspensions contradicts this punishment.

As I pointed out above, Domingo German beat his wife in public at an MLB event. 100% guilty and he confessed. He gets 81 games. Trevor denies everything and no charges were pressed and in the court of public opinion, he looks innocent too. 2 year suspension. They will have to explain this to an arbitrator. If a confession gets you 81 games, a denial shouldn't even be half that.

[Dave Gray]

I can't really say.

I've never even heard this guy's name before.

But I think that it's hard to compare suspension with suspension.  One is domestic abuse, the other is sexual assault, so it's not exactly apples to apples.  We also don't know (or I should say that I don't know) the specifics of the allegation, but maybe the MLB directly met with the accuser and her account was very credible.  Maybe they've had issues with this guy.

It could just come down to:
With German - guy did something bad, recognizes and is willing to atone.
With Bauer 2 - guy did something bad (arguably worse), but the MLB doesn't believe him and he's now lying on top of it.

I ultimately think you're correct -- 2 years does seem like an awful long time, almost as if it was intentionally this long to allow for an appeal so that they could cut it in half and still come out looking like they did something.


Additionally, the first case with German is tough because by punishing him, you're also punishing his wife, since she's tied to him financially, so it's almost dissuasive to bring the hammer down on him if she isn't pushing for it.  It's just not a 1:1 scenario to compare.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If one woman is accusing a man of non-constual behavior, there is a small chance she might be lying.  Once two women are accusing the same guy of the same behavior, I find it extremely unlikely both are lying, in particular how much our society treats women who come forward to allege this type of behavior. 

I know two rape victims who both say what happened after they came forward in terms of being both of lying and deserving the rape was more traumatic and worse than the original rape.  I know other rape victims who won't come forward because they know what will happen to them.  The incidents of false accusations is astronautical small compared to the number of men who get away with it.   

[Spider-Dan]

I completely get consent but he is innocent unless she proves that he isn't. When she continues to stay in a relationship (regardless of the reason) where she had been raped/abused it makes it much harder to "prove" she wasn't consensual to it.

So how did you view the Ray Rice incident?  Regardless of what the camera showed, she stayed with him.

[ArtieChokePhin]

So how did you view the Ray Rice incident?  Regardless of what the camera showed, she stayed with him.

The fucked up thing is that the Ray Rice video put him out of the league for good, but the Joe Mixon video didn't.   

[CF DolFan]

So how did you view the Ray Rice incident?  Regardless of what the camera showed, she stayed with him.

Like I said ... when they stay it makes it much "harder" to prove it. I didn't say that they couldn't prove it. Video is a pretty damn powerful tool and as far as I know there is no video of the sex so you ae left with only circumtantial evidence and their he said/she said stories.

[Spider-Dan]

But you're not even disputing whether it happened, so video wouldn't make a difference.  Your point was that the fact that she chose to see him again afterwards "proves" that it was consensual.  Janay got married to Ray after he hit her on video.  So what does that prove about how she felt?

And just for clarity here: you specifically indicated women who claimed they had been raped or abused:

When she continues to stay in a relationship (regardless of the reason) where she had been raped/abused it makes it much harder to "prove" she wasn't consensual to it.

Does the fact that Janay Rice didn't leave the relationship - rather, the opposite: she got married to Ray - prove that she was consensual to her abuse?

A punch in the face is a punch in the face.

[Spider-Dan]

To be clear, people who are in clear-cut, black-letter physically abusive relationships frequently still go back to their abusive partners.  This does not "prove" that they like or condone the abuse.  There are many complex reasons why it happens.

The fact that she went back to Bauer does not "prove" that she wanted to be punched in the face.  It doesn't prove anything.

[CF DolFan]

To be clear, people who are in clear-cut, black-letter physically abusive relationships frequently still go back to their abusive partners.  This does not "prove" that they like or condone the abuse.  There are many complex reasons why it happens.

The fact that she went back to Bauer does not "prove" that she wanted to be punched in the face.  It doesn't prove anything.

LOL ... you keep believiing that Mr Lawyer but thetruth is most people wouldn't think there was something wrong if she went back for more and would require more proof than just her testimony. There are a lot of reasons she may have went back but it doesn't matter.  It may not be right but it is the human way of interpretting things. Unfortunately it doesn't matter to the law if you kill someone as long as no one can prove it or a jury says you didn't do it ala Casey Anthony and OJ. Being raped, punched, threatened etc. is no different. I get that it sux but life isn't always fair.

[Dave Gray]

^ Why are you still talking about law?

For the upteenth time, this isn't about law.