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Author Topic: Buffalo shooting  (Read 642 times)
Spider-Dan
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« on: May 16, 2022, 01:54:26 pm »

I split this off so as not to derail Hoodie's thread about racist Florida teachers:

This guy who just shot up a grocery store is obviously a racist with a mental issue ... although the two go hand in hand.
Just another lone wolf with a mental issue!

Call it what it is: right-wing domestic terrorism.
It is being stoked by the most popular cable news show in the country telling its viewers on a near-weekly basis that they are being demographically replaced by people who want to destroy their way of life.  And these acts are being facilitated by ever-increasing proliferation of guns combined with the continual removal of any backstops that could reduce the frequency of these shootings.

As always:

« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 01:58:42 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2022, 01:59:15 pm »

I'm sure that people will roll their eyes with the Tucker Carlson connection, but it's there.

He promoted these lies on his show for a long time that this guy spouts in his manifesto.  Dude was crazy either way, but this gave him a place to funnel it.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2022, 02:15:39 pm »

I'm sure that people will roll their eyes with the Tucker Carlson connection, but it's there.
The people who insist that a gay teacher mentioning that they have a same-sex spouse will somehow make students gay... are the same people who insist that the most popular cable news show in the country regularly saying "These filthy immigrants are being bused into the country to replace white people and destroy your way of life" has NOTHING TO DO with this teenager shooting up a supermarket while directly citing those same ideas as motivation.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2022, 02:30:19 pm »

What always amazes me is how the same people who claim this is a mental health issue and not a gun issue are the exact same people who want to cut funding to mental health programs.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2022, 02:39:13 pm »

Ok. Just so I get thhis striaght. If he is a white racist then it's a white leadership issue. If he's arab, black, or a white liberal killing Christians in church then it's a mental issue. No personal repsonsibility whatsoever in lib land. Makes sense to me ... hahaha.

I swear I've heard nothing about Tucker Carlson until this and I know exactly what he is supposedy talking about. It isn't like it's being hidden by any media. White people are bing bullied out. Regardless of the reason ...  even the last Supreme Court justice had to be a "black woman". So much for the days of the most qualified but that's where we are as a society today.

With that said ... there is absolutley no reason for this guy to have been able to do this. Again ... he gave many people and authorities reason to stop him and no one did.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2022, 02:46:50 pm »

Ok. Just so I get thhis striaght. If he is a white racist then it's a white leadership issue. If he's arab, black, or a white liberal killing Christians in church then it's a mental issue. No personal repsonsibility whatsoever in lib land. Makes sense to me ... hahaha.

No, I think that incendiary language from leadership (especially lies) from any group is bad.  The worst people in those groups will take that message to crazy levels.

It's not one or the other -- it's both.  People are crazy.  But you can help them find someplace dangerous to put that crazy, if you're not careful.  This guy got radicalized by what used to be fringe white supremacy but now is mainstream conservative talking-head conspiracy.

I'm not saying it to dunk on you -- it's not about you.  I don't blame you for what Tucker Carlson says.  But he's been pushing white-replacement theory, which used to be a fringe idea.  Now it's a FOX talking point and this guy killed those people, citing that theory.  That guy was crazy anyway, but this gave him a place to put that -- into anger at black people and jews.  It's made particularly bad, because it's not true.  It's a lie that Tucker spouts on his show to drum people up.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2022, 03:08:25 pm »

Ok. Just so I get thhis striaght. If he is a white racist then it's a white leadership issue. If he's arab, black, or a white liberal killing Christians in church then it's a mental issue.
This doesn't happen.
It's a fantasy, invented from whole cloth to pretend like this happens on both sides.

To be crystal clear: there is no issue of "Christians being killed in church" (outside of the black Christians killed in church by white supremacists), but if there was, and it was an Arab shooter who cited a jihadist manifesto, or a black shooter who cited some anti-white Nation of Islam nonsense, you and yours would A B S O L U T E L Y be calling it "terrorism" and calling for the arrest of whomever was promoting it, not spouting this "mental health" spin.

The "mental health" excuse is only used by conservatives who need to invent a scapegoat to distract from the root cause: gun proliferation.  We on the left have no want or need to blame mass shootings on "mental health issues" (as we blame the wide availability of guns), so your criticism here is baseless and makes no sense.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 03:12:16 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2022, 03:12:21 pm »

Ok. Just so I get thhis striaght. If he is a white racist then it's a white leadership issue. If he's arab, black, or a white liberal killing Christians in church then it's a mental issue. No personal repsonsibility whatsoever in lib land. Makes sense to me ... hahaha.

I swear I've heard nothing about Tucker Carlson until this and I know exactly what he is supposedy talking about. It isn't like it's being hidden by any media. White people are bing bullied out. Regardless of the reason ...  even the last Supreme Court justice had to be a "black woman". So much for the days of the most qualified but that's where we are as a society today.

With that said ... there is absolutley no reason for this guy to have been able to do this. Again ... he gave many people and authorities reason to stop him and no one did.

So are you saying you would support a process by which someone with mental health issues or who makes posts white supremacy ideology online having their firearms confiscated?

Yes, he gave people reason to stop him.  But the NRA “we can’t deny 2A rights to some for being an obvious danger to society” makes it impossible for anyone to stop him.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2022, 03:25:26 pm »

We on the left have no want or need to blame mass shootings on "mental health issues" (as we blame the wide availability of guns), so your criticism here is baseless and makes no sense.

Don't put me in this camp, though.

I think it's a whole host of things.  Mental health is one of those.  Guns, and ease of access to getting them when you're dangerous is another.  ...but it's also gun culture.  It's not just that you can get a gun if you don't have one -- it's that in some cases, we're putting them in people's hands and normalizing them as accessories or treating them like they're sexy and glamourous, instead of tools.

And a whole host of other issues, too.

These mass shootings are a complicated thing that need to be addressed in a multitude of ways, and even then, it will only serve to reduce the amount and overall severity, but never to eliminate.  I don't think that this is a problem that can be solved in America, based on our history.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2022, 03:29:05 pm »

Don't put me in this camp, though.

I think it's a whole host of things.  Mental health is one of those.  Guns, and ease of access to getting them when you're dangerous is another.  ...but it's also gun culture. [...]

These mass shootings are a complicated thing that need to be addressed in a multitude of ways, and even then, it will only serve to reduce the amount and overall severity, but never to eliminate.

At the risk of repeating myself:



Mental health issues are not exclusive to America.
Toxic culture issues are not exclusive to America.
There is one very simple and straightforward way to stop this uniquely American epidemic of mass shootings.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2022, 03:38:15 pm »

even then, it will only serve to reduce the amount and overall severity, but never to eliminate. 

This is true of almost every problem.

We can’t eliminate all auto accident deaths.  Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to reduce them

Covid, death during childbirth, heart disease, cancer, hunger, homelessness, climate change, none of these can be fixed 100%.  But we should take steps to improve each.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2022, 04:50:25 pm »

It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce, of course.  But I do think there's a tradeoff.

To Spider's point, we aren't the only country where people have guns, either.  And yet this doesn't happen.  There's something in the stew of America that creates this issue.

I'm 100% for gun reform, but I think the way that Americans see guns is baked into us and I don't think you're gonna get that out.  So, yes -- do the things, background checks, etc -- waiting lists, all that shit.  It will reduce the frequency of this stuff....maybe you deny a crazy person the gun when they're at the most crazy and when it arrives, they've leveled out.

But it's also mental health....it's also toxic culture.  It's all of it.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2022, 05:19:15 pm »

It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce, of course.  But I do think there's a tradeoff.

To Spider's point, we aren't the only country where people have guns, either.  And yet this doesn't happen.  There's something in the stew of America that creates this issue.

I'm 100% for gun reform, but I think the way that Americans see guns is baked into us and I don't think you're gonna get that out.  So, yes -- do the things, background checks, etc -- waiting lists, all that shit.  It will reduce the frequency of this stuff....maybe you deny a crazy person the gun when they're at the most crazy and when it arrives, they've leveled out.

But it's also mental health....it's also toxic culture.  It's all of it.

Other countries such as Switzerland have a high number of guns.  But they have a national licensing and registration programs and effective methods to keep buns out of the hands of those with mental health or violence issues.

Also there is a cultural issue at some point guns stopped being tools and started being about identity.
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ArtieChokePhin
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2022, 05:34:39 pm »

But it's also mental health....it's also toxic culture.  It's all of it.

For once, I can agree with you here.   Especially on the toxic culture part.   People are completely strung out and on the verge of losing it.  
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