Nineteen children under the age of 10 killed in TX school shooting

[Dave Gray]

Limit age purchases
Limit weapon types
background checks
armed guards at school
mental health funding

Do it all.  It's worth going too far.

[CF DolFan]

When 911 happened we didn't ban airplanes. We protected the pilots. Not sure why we can send mega billions to other countries all the time yet we refuse to protect our kids, assist our Vets, and deal with our homeless.

Just like these "mass shootings" ... if it can't be turned into political fodder then you won't hear about it being an issue. 213 "mass shootings" this year but only a few are national news and coincidentally it's the ones that can be used as a poltiical tool. Media, politicians, and keyboard warriors are the biggest phonies ever.  

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

When 911 happened we didn't ban airplanes.

No, but we didn't ban airplanes.  But we did ban bringing box cutters onto airplanes. Instead maybe rather than ban the box cutters encourage all passengers to bring a box cutter on board, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a box cutter is a good guy with a box cutter.

[Dave Gray]

Not sure why we can send mega billions to other countries all the time yet we refuse to protect our kids, assist our Vets, and deal with our homeless.

I've seen this said a few times on social media, so I guess these were the selected conservative marching orders for this round of murders.  Blame Ukraine spending for a reason to make no legislation changes.

You can't protect everyone with guns.  Soft targets will always exist.  Cops were on the scene in this case.  They guy locked a door and killed everyone inside.

So, sure -- if you want to put money into schools to have an armed guard or whatever -- go for it.  But we both know that's not enough.  You have to do all things.  And you have to start limiting fucking assault rifles to crazy people...jesus fucking christ.  Background checks for mental health are such a simple, basic starting point.  Why do people even fight against it?  Who actually wants crazy people to have guns?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Salvador Ramos had coconspirators --- the fucking police. 

The police too cowardly to timely confront the shooter.  But this is Texas where every fucking yahoo owns a gun.  So when parents heard that their was an active shooter at their kids school they showed up with their guns. 

The cops weren't going in the rescue the kids.  But they weren't going to let the parents in either. 

So maybe it is time to update the phrase, "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" to "the only thing that stops a good guy with a gun from stopping a bad guy with a gun, is a bad cop with a badge"

Cops love the "warrior cop" mantra when it comes to tasering a nine year old in handcuffs, but when it comes actually confronting a threat to civilian lives...not so much. 

[Spider-Dan]

And you have to start limiting fucking assault rifles to crazy people...jesus fucking christ.  Background checks for mental health are such a simple, basic starting point.  Why do people even fight against it?  Who actually wants crazy people to have guns?

The same reason why Twitter can't use algorithms to automatically ban people who are trafficking in conspiracies about Jewish space lasers, posting racist rants about n-----rs, or advocating violent overthrow of the government:  it's going to mostly affect Republicans.

Any system that restricts "crazy people" from having guns will necessarily snare a lot more people who believe that our government is run by a bunch of pedophiles who are harvesting adrenochrome from children in the basement of a pizza parlor (i.e. extremely standard MAGA conservatives).

Republicans would never tolerate a system that prevents people like Ammon Bundy or Kyle Rittenhouse from getting a gun.

[CF DolFan]

I've seen this said a few times on social media, so I guess these were the selected conservative marching orders for this round of murders.  Blame Ukraine spending for a reason to make no legislation changes.

You can't protect everyone with guns.  Soft targets will always exist.  Cops were on the scene in this case.  They guy locked a door and killed everyone inside.

So, sure -- if you want to put money into schools to have an armed guard or whatever -- go for it.  But we both know that's not enough.  You have to do all things.  And you have to start limiting fucking assault rifles to crazy people...jesus fucking christ.  Background checks for mental health are such a simple, basic starting point.  Why do people even fight against it?  Who actually wants crazy people to have guns?

You can't protect everyone with guns but if the kids were protected before he got into the school it would have been minimized if not completely eradicated. We have security at many local government buildings where I have to empty my pockets and go through an x-ray machine to get clearance from the armed law enforcement. I have to do this just to get to Engineering for the City of Orlando. Why should it be easier for me to walk onto a school and start blasting away with a freaking rifle? I mean ... that's pretty much the hardest thing to hide and we aren't even trying? Makes no sense to me if we really "care" about protecting our kids.

[CF DolFan]

Salvador Ramos had coconspirators --- the fucking police.  

The police too cowardly to timely confront the shooter.  But this is Texas where every fucking yahoo owns a gun.  So when parents heard that their was an active shooter at their kids school they showed up with their guns.  

The cops weren't going in the rescue the kids.  But they weren't going to let the parents in either.  

So maybe it is time to update the phrase, "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" to "the only thing that stops a good guy with a gun from stopping a bad guy with a gun, is a bad cop with a badge"

Cops love the "warrior cop" mantra when it comes to tasering a nine year old in handcuffs, but when it comes actually confronting a threat to civilian lives...not so much.  

That's a pretty simplistic view from the safety of a couch. They didn't know the kids were dead. They were trying to assess and confront the threat. It isn't like they were sitting back trying to get the nerve to attack him. What if half the kids were alive and they were trying to negotiate instead of attcking him and getting them killed too? There are so many variables that I couldn't begin to think them up but in the end an officer did confront him and kill him. What happened before then is anyone's guess right now.

[Dave Gray]

I can't blame the cops.  They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I'm fine with having a marshal on site at schools, but it will only serve as a deterrent.  Realistically, you can't just go shooting people you think might be trespassers....a gunman will always have the jump on security.  This kid went in and locked the door -- there's just no stopping that, no matter who has guns.

Also, while some level of reasonable security for schools is fine, when someone is on a death mission -- none of that matters.  Plus there will always be soft targets.  Grocery stores, concerts, movies....we have to add security, yes but we have to limit the amounts of guns in the hands of crazy people.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I can't blame the cops.  They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I'm fine with having a marshal on site at schools, but it will only serve as a deterrent.  Realistically, you can't just go shooting people you think might be trespassers....a gunman will always have the jump on security.  This kid went in and locked the door -- there's just no stopping that, no matter who has guns.

Also, while some level of reasonable security for schools is fine, when someone is on a death mission -- none of that matters.  Plus there will always be soft targets.  Grocery stores, concerts, movies....we have to add security, yes but we have to limit the amounts of guns in the hands of crazy people.

Then you shoot the locked door and bust your way in if you're the cops.   It's as simple as that.   You signed up for this when you became a cop.  Defend innocent lives, even at the cost of your own.

[Tenshot13]

I'm noticing a weird shift with this whole incident with the cops.  It started with people on the left criticizing how they handled it.  Last night Tucker Carlson was very critical about it too, and I'm seeing people on the right all over these cops.

I'm more of Dave's opinion.  It was a Sophie's Choice any way you look at it.  They don't maintain the perimeter, parents die and the cops are crucified.  You go in guns a blazing and god forbid you hit a kid, the cops are crucified.  I've heard that they were told to stand down until the border agents arrived too.  The information changes daily.

[Dave Gray]

This is just further proof that more guns aren't going to help the situation.  A bunch of parents storming in there with guns wouldn't have fixed this anyway.  Armed teachers, either.  They'd be shooting each other.

An active shooter has the element of surprise.  Even if you had a gun it would take a long time to figure out what was going on -- who you should be shooting at -- if multiple people have guns and weapons, when do you know it's over?  There's a whole host of reasons that the idea of more guns is stupid.

If you wanted to have one armed officer on campus to be put in a position to respond, fine.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Even other cops are saying the cops failed to do their job.  And given how much cops defend each other during obvious fuck ups, this was a mega cluster fuck of cluster fucks.

[Spider-Dan]

Here's a timeline for you:

The gunman entered the school at 11:33.
Officers first entered at 11:35.
There were 19 officers in the hallway at 12:03.
That's when the 911 calls begin.
A 911 call came in from a girl in room 112 at 12:03 p.m. local time.
The call lasted one minute, 23 seconds. She identified herself and her location in a whisper.
At 12:10 p.m. local time she called back and said there were multiple dead.
She called back at 12:13 p.m. local time and again at 12:16 p.m. local time to say there were “eight to nine students alive,” McCraw laid out.
At 12:36 p.m. local time, McCraw said that on a 911 call, two or three shots could be heard.
The student called back “and was told to stay on the line and be very quiet,” McCraw said.
At one point, the girl said she could hear police nearby.
At 12:51 p.m. local time, McCraw said the call got “very loud” and sounded like officers were moving children out of the room.

This is despicable.  Utterly disgusting.  Why do we have hyper-militarized police with body armor and freaking TANKS who are standing outside in a hallway when someone is executing children in a classroom?  Apparently the only time these cops are willing to promptly use deadly force is if some unarmed brown person with a broken taillight reaches anywhere near their waistline.

Scumbags like Ted Cruz say we should arm the teachers.  How should we expect teachers to confront armed killers when THE COPS are too afraid to do it themselves?

These "make it so there is only one door in and out" responses are mind-bendingly stupid.  Do we also need dozens of kids to die in the next fire as a sacrifice to the gun god?

[dolphins4life]

I can't believe they didn't allow the parents to save their kids.

The police are not legally obligated to do anything.  This is absurd to me, but if we changed the law, almost nobody would become a cop.

As citizens, it is up to ourselves to defend ourselves.

I am surprised the parents didn't just shoot the police who tried to stop them from entering.

In terms of gun control, this is something I want to know.

Most shootings I hear about, the guns were purchased legally.

This seems to contradict the idea that background checks would not stop criminals from obtaining guns.

This kid should never have been allowed to buy a gun