Things you have changed your opinion on.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Churchill observered that someone who holds all the same opinions at 50 as they had at 20 has wasted 30 years of their life.  What issues have you changed your mind on.  It is NOT a thread to debate a position or post your views on things that your opinion has not evolved.  Bad faith responses will be deleted.  If you want to debate something start a different thread. Post things your opinion has changed and why it changed.

Mine:

1. LGBT - I use to hold views I now view as homophobic.  While I never supported homosexuality being illegal, I did support marriage as one man and one women.  My attitude was basically don't ask don't tell.  If you want to be gay fine but I don't need to know.  Stay in the closet but I am not going to "out" you.  Now I support full and equal right.  I still lean somewhat conservative on trans women in sports but otherwise I am a solid ally.  Reason I change wasn't anything that proLGBT folks said.  It was mostly listening to people I agreed with and why they were antigay and realizing the arguments were disgusting and hateful. I am sure you could find older posts on this board expressing opinions I now find highly objectionable.

2. Police.  I was "back the blue" long before "back the blue" was a thing.  Like most people I thought the Rodney King video was disgusting.  But saw it as four bad cops not a problem with policing.  I am sure you are all aware where I stand today.  Blame the change on bystanders with video recorders.  It is just obvious cops are just state sanctioned thugs.

3 Dirty Harry.  Related to above first time I saw the movie I saw Eastwood as the hero of the film.  Now I realize he was one of the villains and viewing him as a hero is what led to a culture that killed George Floyd.

3. Iraq war. I supported it at first.  While I was never a Bush fan I could not conceive of him lying about WMD to invent a reason to go to war.  I was living in Providence RI at the time and went to several support the troops events with the sign "Hans Blix couldn't find an Italian restaurant on Federal Hill". I now realize Blix was an honorable man and Bush is a war Criminal.

4. I am more polically pragmatic.  In 2000 I voted Nader even though I knew Gore was better than Bush and Nader was irrelevant.  In 2016 I was pissed at friends that knew Trump was horrible but voted Johnson instead of Clinton.

5.  In the fall of 2001, I posted jokes that were extremely racist against Muslims that I am extremely embarrassed by today.  I can not justify them by just the anger of the times.  But it was that unfettered anger that motivated them.  

What things have you changed your perspective on?

[Dave Gray]

Funny you mention Dirty Harry, I just saw it for the first time 3 days ago.

I liked the movie, but you're right -- it's a misreading to see him as the hero.  It's a fair criticism of red tape, but it's like vigilante cop work and is a net negative.  Also, it's to be noted that he doesn't stop the crime.  He breaks all the rules and the girl still dies, and all it accomplishes it to keep the bad guy from going to jail because of trumped up evidence.


To answer your main question, I have a few:

The most obvious one now is trans issues.  I used to have a very defined black/white view of this.  In fact, I think all of the things I'm going to list are about embracing and understanding nuance, rather than having a rigid view of an issue.  I have always supported a trans person's right to do whatever they want.  It was never about rights.  But I had this idea in the back of my head that no matter what you do to yourself, no matter what I call you, no matter how you dress, you are born as what you are.  And it took understanding some science about gender, but also just listening to other people's experiences.  This didn't have a profound impact on me or anyone else, because it didn't change my behavior. ....just my thoughts.

I used to have a much more rigid sense of law -- I used to be against the concept of hate crimes, because it felt like thought crime to me.  I just had a black/white view of what was provable or who was liable in situations...all that kind of stuff.  I had a somewhat libertarian view of things, but I realized over time that laws are laws of men.  So, you have to do whatever you can to get the society to act as it should.  I used to care about laws being in "the right place" ...like, "I agree with that stance but it has no business in the state constitution...that law should be passed through [whatever]."   Now I don't give a shit.  Just get it done.  Part of this came from understanding how we desegregated by using commerce laws in workaround ways.  The same is true with capitalism in general.  The game is rigged and there's control keeping people up and down, so that system can't go unchecked, because it's all fake.  It was all idealism and I was trying to create a perfect society, meanwhile people are suffering now and have to live in it.

I have a better understanding of equality vs. equity.  I used to be staunchly against affirmative action (and still think it's outdated, but I don't have a conceptual problem with it anymore).  I didn't understand a need for Black History Month, for example, because every month should be for everyone's history.  Now, I realize the need for those things because it's a correction for something not happening naturally.  The same is true for gender.  I used to want the free market create equal opportunities for race and gender, but realized that those things are systemically flawed.

I have never been intentionally prejudiced or had hate in my heart towards any groups.  But when I was young, my friends of all colors and religions and sexualities-- used language with each other that I look back on today....not so much that I'm ashamed by it -- I was testing the limits of speech as I came into adolescence like everyone else.  But I cringe a little that some of those people might think back on their childhoods and felt that they were not supported.  I don't know this to be the case, but it's something I think about.  ....we called each other kikes and spics and honkeys and wiggers and fags and whatever else.....everyone did it.  And I don't feel any regret with anyone who I'm still keep in touch with, because they were with me through the transition to adulthood.  But I just think -- does someone think back that they had a bunch of racist friends against them?

I have a greater appreciation for mental health issues.  Part of that is just life experience of seeing people deal with depression and shit like that.  I wasn't ever super dug in but there was always a part of me that would think "quit being such a bitch and get out of bed and handle your shit."  But also, I had a panic attack a few years ago and I have no other issues -- it was physically disabling in a way that I didn't realize.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Dave,

Thank you I learned a ton from your post.

 I have always supported affirmative action, womens history month etc.  And while I have always known deep down that the argument that we need a men's history month if we have women's history was dumb.  But I could never really articulate to others or even completely justify it to myself, beyond fixing past problems, I just knew one was right and wrong.  But once i read your framing as equity vs equality I now understand consciously what I use to only understand subconsciously.  And I can now articulate my support for such programs to others.  Thank you for the insight.

[Sunstroke]

One issue that just recently changed, mainly due to some health issues I dealt with...I no longer pay much attention to politics nearly as much. If it doesn't have a direct affect on my world, I just frankly don't give it the time or energy.

[CF DolFan]

Let's see ... I've changed my mind on lot's of things and I'm sure it's much different than most of you. I wasn't going to get invloved with this thread for that reason but feel free to bash away.

1) I grew up poor white trash in a democrat family where I thought I was owed something. My parents divorced when I was 4 and were both alcoholics. I grew up without AC and at times no electricity or water. I've slept in bars and I've even slept in my underwear on a park bench as a child because I had to run out of the house as my father and his current girlfriend were drunkenly trying to kill each other ... again.  Wore shorts to bed after that. I get that it's silly but even as an adult it took me years of marriage before I could sleep without a pair of shorts next to the bed. I've spent Christmases alone as kid, no gifts and no adults who came home for days. The front door locks were broken as was a couple of windows on the front of the house so anyone could get in and we lived right next to the projects. I can't begin to explain how scared a 12 year old can get being on his own but I don't think it could have been much worse. Of course I wouldn't have admitted that back then. After dropping out of high school I went to work for a little more than minimum wage at a large construction company and quickly found out I could succeed if I put forth the effort. Now I make 6 figures, have a small farm and lots of toys. Looking back I'm amazed at those of us who did succeed but more amazed at those who chose to just get by. I run into them from time to time and am shocked that used to be my life. I could have easily been the punk kid who got shot being stupid but I thank the good Lord for everything. I know what it's like to have absolutely nothing and now what's it's like to have something to lose  and that has affected my views tremendously. I feel if you want to get out of a bad life situation then most of the times you can.

2) LGTQB - I used to think nothing wrong ... let them marry, let them have their own tv shows, let them do whatever and it doesn't affect me. I remember debating this with people and me being on the exact opposite side than I am now. Bring me to today and now we are considered bigots if we don't allow them change the sex of a 8 year old boy or believe kids should be allowed into gay bars for drag shows. While I believe everyone has a right to make their own descisions I shouldn't be forced to look at it on every tv show and or commerical as a gimmick. The whole give them an inch and they will take a mile comes to mind. The idea of "family" is an exception these days and the "gay pride" thing has been big into destroying that. Parades where many are carrying dildos or even having them on their bodies, people mimicking sex acts in public etc.  It's no longer OK to be equal they want top billing and if you say anything you are  horrible person.  For the record I have several gay or lesbian friends (some married to each other), been to Pulse nightclub several times, and would do almost anything for them but I won't lie about that. It isn't the LGs who marry that are affecting society but everything else that has been attached to it.

3) I voted for Clinton twice and then Al Gore after that. It was some time after Gore that I realized my values had been changing. I blame it on the kids and new responsiblties of not wanting them to experience anything of my childhood.  Since then I have voted Republican in almost all elections. Personally I think they are both evil and in bed together at the top but if we are going to pretend ... I'm voting Republican although I could just as easily vote Independent or Libertarian if I thought the candidate had a real shot.

Probably a lot more things too if I really think about it but I have to get back to work.

[Spider-Dan]

Expanding the Supreme Court.

I used to think that expanding the Supreme Court was a necessary response to Mitch McConnell's gaming of the system; if the rules say that you can deny any hearing at all to Merrick Garland, but appoint Amy Coney Barrett a month before the election, then the rules also say we can add seats to the Court.

But it seems clear to me now that if Democrats expand the Court, Republicans - who don't actually care about rules unless the rules are working in their favor - will simply ignore whatever the Supreme Court says that they don't like, and we'll be on a fast track to a hot civil war.  Democrats simply cannot get away with the kind of gamesmanship that the media tolerates from Republicans.  So it looks like we're just going to have to deal with the repercussions of 2016 until a few conservative justices leave SCOTUS.  Elections have consequences.

[Fau Teixeira]

Churches, I used to be pretty stand-offish about them. If someone wanted to go to church, then that is their choice, and if they wanted to take their children, that's their prerogative as parents.

However, after the rash of sexual assault abuses from church after church after church, the Catholics, the Baptists, the Mormons... etc. I'm of the firm opinion that taking children to church and leaving them unsupervised anwyere near clergy is the most dangerous thing parents can do. It seems like allowing children to visit a maximum security prison alone and to hang out with the inmates would be safer for them than to expose them to the sexual deviants and pedophiles that run churches.

https://komonews.com/amp/news/nation-world/mormon-church-child-leader-admits-to-sex-abuse-at-sleepovers-he-hosted-sexual-assault-child-abuse-psychosexual

https://sbcec.s3.amazonaws.com/FINAL+-+List+of+Alleged+Abusers+-+SBC+REDACTED.pdf

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/5-700-acts-of-sexual-abuse-committed-by-german-catholic-priests-report-3064026

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Tenshot go back and read what I wrote about bad faith posts and debate.