Just tested positive

[Spider-Dan]

The "science" has always been fuzzy and when politicians pretend it keeps others safe for me to get it then I can't help but wonder what the end game is because it isn't truth. I know many(and I don't use that lightly) vaccinated people who infected their spouse, parents and/or friends.

I was originally going to rebut this on the merits, but if you're still saying this stuff in summer 2022, there's no point.  You can go ahead and file COVID vaccines in the same "global hoax" category that you use for climate change and/or evolution.  Best of luck to you.

Seems kind of odd you allude to Trump being a cause for people not to get it when he has gotten it as well as the boosters and even called out people like DeSantis for not disclosing their choice.

He got the vaccine in secret and refused to join the other former presidents in making a PSA to promote getting vaccinated.  Trump got vaccinated for the only reason that he does anything: he thinks it will help him.  He has been extremely timid and passive in advocating for others to get it.

And then there's the whole thing about his followers being COVID deniers because he has been telling them to deny it from day 1.

[CF DolFan]

And then there's the whole thing about his followers being COVID deniers because he has been telling them to deny it from day 1.

I'm not sure why you respond if you're just going to make blanket assumtions all the time. Either you forget who you talk to, you don't comprehend what they say or you just make stuff up. Either way what comes from you
 tends to be a very exaggerated stance. It may work to impress your friends about the dumb hillbily Trumpers you destroy online but it's nothing in the real world.

As far as Trump I would like to know what is it that changes his stance according  to liberal news and yourself? Is he actually the guy who claims the vaccine got approved so quickly and perfectly because of him or is he the guy who hides his vaccine and "he has been telling them to deny it from day 1?"    According to the Huffington Post (I know you guys lve liberal sources) Trump touted the jabs as “one of the greatest achievements of mankind”.

“I came up with three vaccines – all are very, very good,” Trump told Owens on Wednesday. “The vaccine worked, but some people aren’t taking it. The ones that get very sick and go to the hospital are the ones that don’t take their vaccine.”

“But it’s still their choice,” he continued. “If you take the vaccine, you’re protected. But the results of the vaccine are very good, and if you do get it, it’s a very minor form. People aren’t dying when they take the vaccine.”

[Spider-Dan]

I'm not sure why you respond if you're just going to make blanket assumtions all the time. Either you forget who you talk to, you don't comprehend what they say or you just make stuff up. Either way what comes from you tends to be a very exaggerated stance.

Assumptions?  You yourself, a Trump supporter, are a COVID denier!  You just did it in this very thread!

Do you really need me to cite a laundry list of times you have downplayed COVID, minimized its impact, or peddled some conspiracy about COVID vaccines?  You're a COVID denier, dude.

As far as Trump I would like to know what is it that changes his stance according  to liberal news and yourself? Is he actually the guy who claims the vaccine got approved so quickly and perfectly because of him or is he the guy who hides his vaccine and "he has been telling them to deny it from day 1?"

Both.  He hid it for as long as he thought denying COVID was his best play, and then when he decided that taking credit for the vaccine made him look better, he switched to that.

Furthermore, I'm not sure why you're citing this as evidence for anything other than Trump's incoherent schizophrenia.  After all, we are talking about the same guy who repeatedly downplayed COVID as just the flu while simultaneously insisting that it's a Chinese bioweapon.  He has no consistency in his positions.

[Dave Gray]

Is he actually the guy who claims the vaccine got approved so quickly and perfectly because of him or is he the guy who hides his vaccine and "he has been telling them to deny it from day 1?"   

It's weird, because he's kinda both.  I think there's a more nuanced political answer.

I found it odd that Trump didn't get on board with the vaccine 100% and take as much credit as he could for his role in operation warp speed.

But I think that, in order to do that, the political reality meant that he opened himself up to criticism.  All that stuff really early about "COVID being a few cases, soon it will be zero" stuff.  It'll be gone by Easter.

He put himself in both camps.

So, in order to not have to admit publicly that he didn't take this seriously enough early on, he felt the political path to walk was to not directly deny the vaccine (because he helped bring it to market, maybe) and he didn't want direct backlash but to muddy the water and allow for an environment where the vaccine isn't trusted.

It all came down to this: Once Trump tried to "no big deal" this early on, there wasn't a path for him to push the importance of a vaccine to fix something that was no big deal, so he had to double down.  That was unfortunate.

Once the vaccine was available, though, I was able to take care of me and mine, so while I was kinda dumbfounded at it, I cared less.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

These are not black/white answers -- in general, yes, parents should choose over the government -- but in cases where your parenting decisions affect other people, we have to make group decisions together.  That's the basis of a shared society.

Or in cases where parents are scientifically wrong, I think it's reasonable for the government to step in.  Not in a rather benign situation like masking, but I don't that a parent should be able to deny a blood transfusion against generally accepted medical advice, for example.

You have two different situations.

1. The first falls in the category of effecting others. "Your right to swing your arms ends at the tip of my nose". In the case of masks the parents right to send their children to a school with Covid mitigation vastly out weights your child's desire to go maskless.  Same if you feel you child should be able to smoke cigarettes in school, the other children's right to smoke free classroom outweighs your poor parenting choices.

2 The second is where the parenting choice only effects you own children. E.g. car seats, methods of punishment, whether they go to school or work in coal mines at age 7, etc. While in these cases parents are offered a little bit more deference, there are basic standards because many parents don't actually make the best choice for their children.

[CF DolFan]

Assumptions?  You yourself, a Trump supporter, are a COVID denier!  You just did it in this very thread!

Do you really need me to cite a laundry list of times you have downplayed COVID, minimized its impact, or peddled some conspiracy about COVID vaccines?  You're a COVID denier, dude.
Both.  He hid it for as long as he thought denying COVID was his best play, and then when he decided that taking credit for the vaccine made him look better, he switched to that.

Furthermore, I'm not sure why you're citing this as evidence for anything other than Trump's incoherent schizophrenia.  After all, we are talking about the same guy who repeatedly downplayed COVID as just the flu while simultaneously insisting that it's a Chinese bioweapon.  He has no consistency in his positions.

HAHAHA  ... Just because I don't believe you are more protected if I get a shot that doesn't stop me from getting it or infecting you doesn't make me a denier. Huge stretch. Deny is to say it doesnt exist or ever happened. The fact I say it has been politicised and has not been represented as correct does not equate to denying anything. I spent 4 days in the hospital with covid and stll have some side effects. I no doubt belive in covid. 

[CF DolFan]

It's weird, because he's kinda both.  I think there's a more nuanced political answer.

I found it odd that Trump didn't get on board with the vaccine 100% and take as much credit as he could for his role in operation warp speed.

But I think that, in order to do that, the political reality meant that he opened himself up to criticism.  All that stuff really early about "COVID being a few cases, soon it will be zero" stuff.  It'll be gone by Easter.

He put himself in both camps.

So, in order to not have to admit publicly that he didn't take this seriously enough early on, he felt the political path to walk was to not directly deny the vaccine (because he helped bring it to market, maybe) and he didn't want direct backlash but to muddy the water and allow for an environment where the vaccine isn't trusted.

It all came down to this: Once Trump tried to "no big deal" this early on, there wasn't a path for him to push the importance of a vaccine to fix something that was no big deal, so he had to double down.  That was unfortunate.

Once the vaccine was available, though, I was able to take care of me and mine, so while I was kinda dumbfounded at it, I cared less.

I didn't think Trump cared what others thought. He certainly doesn't act like it.  I know what you are saying though. Given enough time he has a tendency to talk out of both sides of his mouth.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I know several Obama/Biden supporters who choose not to get it and you probably do too. Maybe not though as you are in California.

The fact that he's in Cali tells me all I need to know about this guy.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

To answer the Trump question.....  Basically he is just a two year old.  (See Cassidy Hutchinson testimony about Trump throwing food) He was antimask because the same people who where disagreeing with him about whether it was serious were promask.  Same thing happened with the vax.  When the liberals wanted masks and were say vax would take a long time -- he was saying the vax will solve all.  Once the liberals were telling everyone to get the vax, he stopped supporting it because his entire agenda was being anti-liberal.

If early on in the pandemic Hilary Clinton had came out against masks, Trump would have issued an executive order mandating them in public.

If Obama had on the day the vax was announced, said he didn't trust a vaccine developed by the Trump administration, the republican senate would have voted to mandate the vax.

For the most Trump didn't have a vision or a direction other than being anti-democrats, without any real reasoning other than if Clinton/Obama/Pelosi thinks it is a good idea than it must be a bad idea, if they think it is a bad idea it must be a good idea.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The fact that he's in Cali tells me all I need to know about this guy.

Yes, everyone from California thinks exactly alike.  That is why Kevin Mccarthy and Katie Porter have the EXACT same voting record.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I didn't think Trump cared what others thought.

It is the only thing he cared about.  I can't recall once that Obama, Bush,Clinton, Bush, or Reagan talking about crowd sizes.

In the same hearing he is accused of supporting a plot to kill the VP and of throwing food.  Guess which one he thought was more important to deny.

[ArtieChokePhin]

Yes, everyone from California thinks exactly alike.  That is why Kevin Mccarthy and Katie Porter have the EXACT same voting record.

When the California State Government pulls some shit like this, then I don't want to live or go anywhere near there.

https://patriotfetch.com/2022/06/unbelievable-what-this-state-attorney-general-just-did-to-concealed-carry-holders-endangers-their-lives/?omnisendContactID=610b06481215fa3d8b068457&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=PatriotFetch

[Tenshot13]

Hey D4L, I know you said you just had a cough left, did you fully recover?

[Spider-Dan]

Just because I don't believe you are more protected if I get a shot that doesn't stop me from getting it or infecting you doesn't make me a denier.

You're being far too modest in describing your position on COVID!  Let me help provide a more complete picture of your COVID commentary so far:

- "COVID hysteria isn't all it's cracked up to be"
- it has been "proven day in and day out" that the vaccine "doesn't work to any degree that it's worth destroying people's lives for not doing it"
- Ivermectin has been used to fight COVID "successfully in many of the other civilized countries"
- you hyped the lying COVID-denying doctor who claims he "invented mRNA"
- there is "no reason" to get vaccinated if you've already had COVID
- you hyped the completely unregulated VAERS website as authoritative data on vaccination side effects
- a person currently testing positive for COVID poses "no more risk" than a vaccinated person
- you fearmongered about the vaccine being more dangerous than the disease
- you hyped an article claiming COVID "has NO credible natural ancestor and WAS created by Chinese scientists"
- you downplayed the public health impact of shutdowns as not making "much of a difference compared to not shutting down"
- you dismissed the thousands of COVID deaths per day as "less than 1/2 percent doesn't justify ruining millions of peoples lives and shutting down"

You take a back seat to no one in your dedication to COVID denial, sir.  You are the Tom Brady of COVID deniers.

Deny is to say it doesnt exist or ever happened.

So according to you, the only people who count as "COVID deniers" are those who believe it is imaginary?  Not the people who say that it's just the flu, or that the vaccine is worse, or that it's not dangerous, but only those who say that there literally is no such thing as a COVID-19 virus?
That's a pretty convenient definition for you!

Unfortunately, doctors disagree with you on the definition of "COVID denial."  They don't define it as only people who think COVID doesn't exist.

[dolphins4life]

Hey D4L, I know you said you just had a cough left, did you fully recover?

Not quite.  Getting there

Going for a two-hour treadmill run yesterday probably WASN'T the smartest thing to do