Just tested positive

[Spider-Dan]

Banning cars would cause more suffering and death than allowing them does.
That's the difference: even if you don't officially declare a shutdown, if people are terrified of leaving their homes because of a highly contagious disease that is killing thousands upon thousands of people per day, the economy is still going to tank anyway.

[dolphins4life]

It won’t necessarily tank

[dolphins4life]

Masks don't affect the economy at all.  I don't know why people make such a big deal about wearing them

[CF DolFan]

Masks don't affect the economy at all.  I don't know why people make such a big deal about wearing them

I don't care if masks are required or not (I wear them into places that require them) but the generic surgical mask is almost useless and gives a false sense of protection. It's a pretend fix so that people can act like they are doing something. Cloth masks are absolutley useless.

[dolphins4life]

If that is the case, why do surgeons wear them?  They wore them even before the pandemic.

It's true that for every site and study you can find supporting one pandemic claim, you can find a site and study refuting it.  It makes it hard to know who to believe.

[Tenshot13]

If that is the case, why do surgeons wear them?  They wore them even before the pandemic.

It's true that for every site and study you can find supporting one pandemic claim, you can find a site and study refuting it.  It makes it hard to know who to believe.

The purpose of face masks is thought to be two-fold: to prevent the passage of germs from the surgeon's nose and mouth into the patient's wound and to protect the surgeon's face from sprays and splashes from the patient. Face masks are thought to make wound infections after surgery less likely.

https://www.cochrane.org/CD002929/WOUNDS_disposable-surgical-face-masks-preventing-surgical-wound-infection-clean-surgery

[Spider-Dan]

The purpose of face masks is thought to be two-fold: to prevent the passage of germs from the surgeon's nose and mouth into the patient's wound and to protect the surgeon's face from sprays and splashes from the patient.

Sounds like surgical masks help prevent the passage of germs from the nose and mouth.

Again, all of the people like CF claiming "masks don't do anything" are transparently performing political wishcasting in service of the former guy.

1) If surgical masks are almost useless, why is this just being mentioned now after we have been using surgical masks in hospitals for nearly a century?
2) If hospital-grade surgical masks are better than "absolutely useless" cloth masks, and N95 masks are better than "almost useless" surgical masks, are they saying that - due to their deeply held personal concern over insufficiently effective masks - they support mask mandates as long as they are N95-only?  Of course not; they don't want any masks at all!

All this anti-mask propaganda is merely throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.  They don't give the slightest damn about people wearing masks that aren't effective enough; they'll just take any excuse they can find to try to scare people into taking off the masks.  The cloth masks and the surgical masks don't do anything, and the N95 masks - which definitely do work! - will suffocate you with your own carbon dioxide, so unfortunately the only reasonable option is to wear no mask at all!  How convenient.

[dolphins4life]

Sounds like surgical masks help prevent the passage of germs from the nose and mouth.

Again, all of the people like CF claiming "masks don't do anything" are transparently performing political wishcasting in service of the former guy.

1) If surgical masks are almost useless, why is this just being mentioned now after we have been using surgical masks in hospitals for nearly a century?
2) If hospital-grade surgical masks are better than "absolutely useless" cloth masks, and N95 masks are better than "almost useless" surgical masks, are they saying that - due to their deeply held personal concern over insufficiently effective masks - they support mask mandates as long as they are N95-only?  Of course not; they don't want any masks at all!

All this anti-mask propaganda is merely throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.  They don't give the slightest damn about people wearing masks that aren't effective enough; they'll just take any excuse they can find to try to scare people into taking off the masks.  The cloth masks and the surgical masks don't do anything, and the N95 masks - which definitely do work! - will suffocate you with your own carbon dioxide, so unfortunately the only reasonable option is to wear no mask at all!  How convenient.

An anti-masker would say the same thing only reversed.

I just want the facts. 

This reminds me of a saying.  Rather than give me.....(can't remember the rest)...give me truth.  I think Henry David Thoreau said it

[Spider-Dan]

An anti-masker would say the same thing only reversed.

What is the "reverse" of "We have a century of hospital evidence that surgical masks work"?
What is the "reverse" of "If you really think surgical masks aren't effective enough, then let's agree on an N95 mask mandate"?

At some point you have to use your own best judgement and figure out who is bullshitting and who is making sense.

[dolphins4life]

What is the "reverse" of "We have a century of hospital evidence that surgical masks work"?
What is the "reverse" of "If you really think surgical masks aren't effective enough, then let's agree on an N95 mask mandate"?

At some point you have to use your own best judgement and figure out who is bullshitting and who is making sense.

Cutting and pasting.  This is what an anti-masker would say.  This does NOT reflect my personal belief

Again, all of the people like Spider claiming "masks are effective" are transparently performing political wishcasting in service of the current president.

(Insert a study showing masks don't work)
(Insert a link saying masks are harmful to children)

All this mask propaganda is merely throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.  They don't give a fig about people's safety.   They'll just take any excuse they can find to try to scare people into wearing the masks.  

Again, who is telling the truth?

The vast majority of this country is leaning towards calling the pandemic bullshit.  EVERY SINGLE COMMENT on any news article or youtube video about the pandemic is saying that it is garbage.

I will start another thread later about the polarization of the pandemic

Edit:  I actually LIKE wearing my mask, so I'm a little slanted on this one.  I think it looks cool and covers the fat part of my nose

I wonder if Mehmet Ozyurek has trouble wearing a mask

[Spider-Dan]

I didn't quote "studies."
I said hospitals have been using surgical masks for nearly a century.  Is there even any dispute on that point?
I also said that if you believe surgical masks to be insufficient, N95s are more effective.  Again, is there even any dispute on this point?

"Both sides are loud" is not an excuse.  You have people on both sides of the issue even when the question is as ridiculous as "Is the earth round or flat?" At some point you're going to have to use your own brain and decide who makes sense to you.

[dolphins4life]

I'm lucky in terms of the mask that I don't even have to make a decision.  I'll just wear one.

Now about the vaccine.

The pro-vaxers have the Herman Cain awards.

I wonder why the anti-vaxers haven't started their own version of them. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The difference in studies is the pro-mask, pro-vax studies are generally peer reviewed scientific studies from sources such as New England Jurnal of Medicine, John Hopkins University, CDC, World Health Organization etc.  Whereas the anti-vax studies are typically a poll on facebook of the opinions of people or antidotal stories.

[dolphins4life]

The difference in studies is the pro-mask, pro-vax studies are generally peer reviewed scientific studies from sources such as New England Jurnal of Medicine, John Hopkins University, CDC, World Health Organization etc.  Whereas the anti-vax studies are typically a poll on facebook of the opinions of people or antidotal stories.

Could you cite some examples?

[CF DolFan]

Sounds like surgical masks help prevent the passage of germs from the nose and mouth.

Again, all of the people like CF claiming "masks don't do anything" are transparently performing political wishcasting in service of the former guy.

1) If surgical masks are almost useless, why is this just being mentioned now after we have been using surgical masks in hospitals for nearly a century?
2) If hospital-grade surgical masks are better than "absolutely useless" cloth masks, and N95 masks are better than "almost useless" surgical masks, are they saying that - due to their deeply held personal concern over insufficiently effective masks - they support mask mandates as long as they are N95-only?  Of course not; they don't want any masks at all!

All this anti-mask propaganda is merely throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.  They don't give the slightest damn about people wearing masks that aren't effective enough; they'll just take any excuse they can find to try to scare people into taking off the masks.  The cloth masks and the surgical masks don't do anything, and the N95 masks - which definitely do work! - will suffocate you with your own carbon dioxide, so unfortunately the only reasonable option is to wear no mask at all!  How convenient.

While helpful to stop infections and droplets surgical masks don't stop particles like Covid. You can't use "why have they been doing something if it's useless" when the whole reason they have been doing  something is a different "something". Nice political spin. Again .. based on studies surgical masks only offer "partial" protection at best so my statement of them being almost useless still stands and cloth masks are useless.