Wiggins regrets vaccination

[dolphins4life]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34268790/golden-state-warriors-andrew-wiggins-regrets-getting-covid-19-vaccine-all-star-title-season

A very interesting read.  He wound up winning a title, but still wonders if it was the right decision.

I don't know if I regret my own vaccine decision yet.  I am due for the second booster soon, and my nerves are shaking about it.

[EDGECRUSHER]

It's a personal choice. I didn't agree with it from the start, but it was a bit more understandable when it was assumed that the vaccine prevented you from getting or transmitting it. Now, it's been proven that it does neither so it shouldn't be mandated.

If it helps reduce symptoms, then that is for you and you alone.

[Tenshot13]

Personal anecdote, I got the J&J shot and booster.  Everyone I know has had COVID but me, my wife, my nephew and his girlfriend he lives with.  We all got the J&J shot. 

[Spider-Dan]

It's a personal choice. I didn't agree with it from the start, but it was a bit more understandable when it was assumed that the vaccine prevented you from getting or transmitting it. Now, it's been proven that it does neither so it shouldn't be mandated.

Just to be clear: are you taking the position that if a vaccine is less than 100% effective at preventing you from contracting a disease, it should be be considered "ineffective" at protecting you from that disease?  Because that would describe every vaccine ever invented.

Let's not muddle what we are talking about, here: in late summer/early fall of 2021 when Wiggins was "pressured" (not "mandated," as Kyrie can attest) to get vaccinated, the available vaccines at that time worked extremely well at preventing people from catching the then-current variants of COVID being transmitted.

I think SFGate put it better than I can:

"If becoming a first-time All-Star, winning an NBA title and rehabilitating your image out of the toilet aren't enough to convince you that getting vaccinated is worth it, nothing ever will.

Warriors forward Andrew Wiggins did all of those things this season. But even acknowledging that none of it would have been possible without taking a COVID-19 vaccine first, he still regrets getting the shot."

This dude should be thanking his lucky stars that he got vaccinated, and looking to Kyrie as a cautionary tale.  Instead, he probably envies Kyrie for his Brave Moral Stand.

You can lead a horse to water...

[Dave Gray]

I agree with Edgecrusher, though I don't agree with his wording.

The vaccine wasn't assumed to prevent you from getting or transmitting the virus.  It was proven to prevent you from getting or transmitting.

But then the virus mutated (multiple times now).

But in the end, the vax is no longer responsible (enough) for stopped spread, which makes a mandate unnecessary.  People should still get vaxxed and it's stupid not to, but it's personally stupid and not an issue of public health any longer.

[Phishfan]

I'm going strictly from memory but I don't recall any proof of the vaccine preventing transmission. In fact that was disproved before everyone was eligible or we were discussing variations.

[Spider-Dan]

The way that the word "prevent" is being used in this discussion is weird.

Do passwords "prevent" unauthorized access to accounts?
Do handwashing laws for restaurant staff "prevent" the spread of disease at restaurants?

[CF DolFan]

I'm going strictly from memory but I don't recall any proof of the vaccine preventing transmission. In fact that was disproved before everyone was eligible or we were discussing variations.

I agree with you. If memory serves me it was places like CNN, MSNBC and politicians that said that and NOT science. This is one of the reasons why many people mistrusted the vaccine. If it was legit then why have to lie about it? I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said there has to be another reason for forcing it.

[Spider-Dan]

Every reputable medical and scientific organization stood behind the safety and efficacy of the COVID vaccines.
Perhaps you mean your "memory" of your opinion?

[CF DolFan]

Every reputable medical and scientific organization stood behind the safety and efficacy of the COVID vaccines.
Perhaps you mean your "memory" of your opinion?

Which reputable medical and scientific organizations said the vaccine prevents you from getting it or giving it to someone?

On a side note ... since we can no longer determine sex of a person by scientific means I figured the whole science thing was off the table with you guys because I know you'd never just pick and choose what you want to believe about "science".

[Dave Gray]

Which reputable medical and scientific organizations said the vaccine prevents you from getting it or giving it to someone?

This only applied to the original strand before the virus mutated and breakthrough cases became much more common.   An ongoing, multinational, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded trial showed a 95% reduction in catching COVID.  There were still some breakthrough cases, but they were rare (8 got COVID in the vaccine group, 162 got it in the control group) -- that was just the data for the first week, but the article goes more into that.

This is from the New England Journal of Medicine from 2020.  It doesn't get any more legit than this.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577


Of course, this is all old news now, because this is no longer the virus we're dealing with.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I agree with Edgecrusher, though I don't agree with his wording.

The vaccine wasn't assumed to prevent you from getting or transmitting the virus.  It was proven to prevent you from getting or transmitting.

But then the virus mutated (multiple times now).

But in the end, the vax is no longer responsible (enough) for stopped spread, which makes a mandate unnecessary.  People should still get vaxxed and it's stupid not to, but it's personally stupid and not an issue of public health any longer.

If I were an elderly man or immune compromised somehow, I would recommend getting the vaccine and I have said this to people I know in similar situations. However, if you are under 40 and healthy, I do strongly advise against it. It hasn't been properly tested, Pfizer themselves admits that clinical trials are running for several more years(which means FDA approval was a joke but that's a different discussion), and more studies come out by the week about how people are having problems.

If you are barely at risk of getting very seriously ill from Covid, rely on your natural immune system.

[Dave Gray]

^ That's bad advice.

It's simple risk assessment.  The odds of getting complications from the vaccine pale in comparison from the odds of complications from COVID, even in young people.

Probably nothing will happen to you either way and you're very likely to live and not have issues if you're young and healthy, but it's still likely to make you less sick and more likely to not develop problems if you're current with your vaccinations.

[Spider-Dan]

Which reputable medical and scientific organizations said the vaccine prevents you from getting it or giving it to someone?

Still waiting for you guys to let me know what the word "prevent" means in this context.
Suffice it to say that if you believe the polio vaccine "prevents" polio, then in summer 2021 it would have been entirely accurate to say that the COVID vaccines "prevent" COVID.

On a side note ... since we can no longer determine sex of a person by scientific means I figured the whole science thing was off the table with you guys because I know you'd never just pick and choose what you want to believe about "science".

Not sure why you would think we can't determine sex by scientific means.
If I were to take a guess, I'd say it's because you probably think sex and gender are the same thing.

[Spider-Dan]

However, if you are under 40 and healthy, I do strongly advise against it. It hasn't been properly tested, Pfizer themselves admits that clinical trials are running for several more years(which means FDA approval was a joke but that's a different discussion), and more studies come out by the week about how people are having problems.

If you are barely at risk of getting very seriously ill from Covid, rely on your natural immune system.

No matter your age, I would strongly advise against relying on your natural immune system for defense against COVID.

COVID is a very recently disease that has only been discovered less than 3 years ago.
It has not been fully documented, and more studies come out by the week about how people are dying or having long-term COVID symptoms - far more people than are having any problems with the vaccines.

Long story short: whether you are used to study the long-term effects of COVID vaccines, or you are used to study the spread and long-term effects of COVID on the unvaccinated, you are going to be a guinea pig either way.  Very simple and straightforward math makes it quite clear that vaccines present less risk than COVID infection, particularly if you are unvaccinated.