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Author Topic: Dolphins lose draft picks. Ross fined  (Read 1115 times)
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2022, 03:43:16 pm »

Doesn't sound like Flores is too happy with how things turned out.

Flores - I am thankful that the NFL’s investigator found my factual allegations against Stephen Ross are true. At the same time, I am disappointed to learn that the investigator minimized Mr. Ross’s offers and pressure to tank games especially when I wrote and submitted a letter at the time to Dolphins executives documenting my serious concerns regarding this subject at the time which the investiagtor has in her possession. While the investigator found that the Dolphins had engaged in imperimissible tampering of “unprecedented scope and severity,” Mr. Ross will avoid any meaningful consequence. There is nothing more important when it comes to the game of football itself than the integrity of the game. When the integrity of the game is called intro question, fans suffer, and football suffers.



Flores is right.  The NFL has some pretty twisted logic.

Allegation:  Ross wanted Flores to tamper with Brady.

NFL:  Ross denied tampering with Brady or asking Flores to tamper with Brady.  We conclude there is multiple sources of evidence proving Ross did in fact tampered with Brady, however, the only evidence that Ross asked Flores to tamper with Brady is Flores's word.    We conclude Ross was lying in his denial of tampering with Brady but is telling the truth about his interaction with Flores.  We trust the integrity of Ross over Flores. 

Allegation:  Ross offered Flores money to tank games, Flores refused.

NFL:  We conclude the offer was made, but it was made in jest.  The only evidence that we have that it was made in jest was that Flores didn't tank the games.  But that is sufficient because we trust the integrity of Ross over Flores.   



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CF DolFan
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2022, 03:47:45 pm »

Funny listening to Hoch and Crowder and the points they are bringing up. Everyone does it, Heat have made a living out of doing it, and why isn't Brady being punished for agreeing to meet, free agents sign at midnight every year etc ..  

Crowder ... this is just like speeding on the Turnpike. Everyone does it.

Mike Cugno ... yes, if they had a video of you speeding and the whole country is watching you do it.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2022, 03:51:52 pm »

Flores is right.  The NFL has some pretty twisted logic  

You can say that about any sport. Basketball makes a lottery because they know teams quit playing to win. Football signs free agents at midnight but yet they aren't allowed to tamper. Every sport is about money and integrity comes second. They are more in tune to tryng to make it look like they have integrity than actually having it.

Ross was never in any danger as the owners weren't going to hurt one of their own because they might be next.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2022, 04:00:21 pm »

Dave Hyde - Every owner knows how to tamper without being a league-wide conversation. Every team knows how to tank without having to float a bribe to the coach to lose games. This is Ownership 101, folks. This isn’t anything close to the heavy lifting of winning.

I think the only thing Ross did wrong was having a coach who did have integrity. Enough so to his detriment.

I look at this way. When I got into inspecting I, like many others, were by the book. I thought everything was black and white per the specs  After enough times of realizing everything can't fit into the square box,  I learned to make decisions on the gray areas. I ask myself what are we is the intent that we are trying to accomplish rather than what does the book say? We all do or it just wouldn't work. I don't think Flores has learned that yet and Ross is paying the price for it. 
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2022, 04:04:53 pm »

why isn't Brady being punished for agreeing to meet,

Players can't tamper.  

For example.

Player X on team A says in a press conference.  "I hated it on team A.  Team B please trade for me"  (NOT TAMPERING)

Next day- coach on Team B is asked about Player X.  If the coach says they would love to have player X it is tampering.  In fact pretty much the only thing the coach can say is "we don't discuss players that are under contract with other teams"

If player X calls team B.  (NOT TAMPERING by the player)  If team B agrees to talk with player X not that is TAMPERING by the team.

Players are not subject to any anti-tampering rules.  



  


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Dave Gray
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2022, 05:42:45 pm »

Also, you want plausible deniability.  Don't get caught tampering by not doing what is tampering by the book.  Skirt the edges of it.

But whatever you do, whoever you're playing in the gray area with (presumably Flores), make sure that they're on the same page that you are.  You have to test the waters. 

"I really wish we had a guy like Brady on our team."
"We should invite him down for the day on the boat -- pick his brain -- see what makes him tick."
"Maybe we can get a feel for if he'd be a good fit for us if he ever wanted to be traded."

If the guy you're with doesn't pick up what you're putting down, don't progress the situation.  Certainly don't set up a meeting and sideline your coach who wants no part of it.


I'm not even condoning it, but you have to talk in code with each other and the players as well.  You can't just put the stuff out there directly.
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ArtieChokePhin
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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2022, 06:28:35 pm »

Player X on team A says in a press conference.  "I hated it on team A.  Team B please trade for me"  (NOT TAMPERING)

Next day- coach on Team B is asked about Player X.  If the coach says they would love to have player X it is tampering.  In fact pretty much the only thing the coach can say is "we don't discuss players that are under contract with other teams"

But if the coach keeps silent on the matter and then works out a trade for the player, is it still tampering?


« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 07:48:16 pm by ArtieChokePhin » Logged
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2022, 07:02:25 pm »

But if the coach keeps silent on the matter and then works out a trade for the player, is it still tampering


If a coach knows a player wants to be traded and works out a deal with his team for a trade it is not tampering.  Tampering is going around the current team or hampering the current teams rights.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2022, 07:20:34 am »

Players can't tamper.  

For example.

Player X on team A says in a press conference.  "I hated it on team A.  Team B please trade for me"  (NOT TAMPERING)

Next day- coach on Team B is asked about Player X.  If the coach says they would love to have player X it is tampering.  In fact pretty much the only thing the coach can say is "we don't discuss players that are under contract with other teams"

If player X calls team B.  (NOT TAMPERING by the player)  If team B agrees to talk with player X not that is TAMPERING by the team.

Players are not subject to any anti-tampering rules.  

I know the rule but it still doesn't answer the question. Why are owners held to different standards than players. It should be a rule or not a rule. Is tampering wrong or not?
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hordman
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2022, 09:43:48 am »

This was for all that stuff with Brady and Sean Payton.

Ross is a bozo.


Oh, also Ross is suspended through October.


At first, my boy and I were pissed when we heard about this, but then I thought more about it and unfortunately, I agree that he definitely needed to be reprimanded for it. It just sucks that it's a 1st round pick next year. the 3rd round pick in '24 is a little less sucky, but the 1st round hits hard.

I think he is a bozo and agree when I heard about this tampering that he probably did this.  He's that dumb enough to try and pull this off.

Hopefully, this doesn't affect the play of the Dolphins this season and they can rise above the talk. Hope the 49ers suck this year so that pick is a better one.
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Downunder Dolphan
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2022, 09:45:38 am »

Dolphins lose their 2023 first rounder and 2024 third rounder and Ross is fined $1.7 million for violating the integrity of the game.   Not sure exactly what happened but it shows how much of a buffoon Ross is.

When Ross first approached Harbaugh, we all assumed it was because he was a buffoon and new to the game of being an NFL owner...

I'm really pissed off at this - I have no sympathy for him at all, and can't wait for him to be gone. That he can't seemingly learn from his mistakes to me says he thinks he's above the rules and above the law, and this time it has really burnt the team. Losing those draft picks next year is going to be very costly.

Ross is paying for this personally too, and I'm not talking about the $1.7M fine. According to one source, as well as the team suspension to mid-October he will also be removed from some of the NFL’s most important committees: Finance; NFL media; international; and legal sports betting. That's a pretty damning message in itself, and I have my doubts his reputation will ever really recover from it.  
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2022, 12:20:45 pm »

I know the rule but it still doesn't answer the question. Why are owners held to different standards than players. It should be a rule or not a rule. Is tampering wrong or not?
This seems weird because Hoodie's description is wrong.  Players can, indeed, be guilty of tampering.  Just not of tampering with themselves.

Player A is a current member of the Rams.
Player B, under contract with the Chargers, complains on Twitter about his playing time.
Player A replies on Twitter, "Come over to our locker room... it's right down the hall."

This is textbook tampering and will result in a fine.

You logically cannot tamper with yourself, which is why players don't get hit with tampering fines for saying they want out of their current team.  Similarly, a team would not be hit with a tampering fine for saying, "Player X no longer has a place in our locker room and we'll be exploring our options."
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2022, 01:38:11 pm »

This seems weird because Hoodie's description is wrong.  Players can, indeed, be guilty of tampering.  Just not of tampering with themselves.

Player A is a current member of the Rams.
Player B, under contract with the Chargers, complains on Twitter about his playing time.
Player A replies on Twitter, "Come over to our locker room... it's right down the hall."

This is textbook tampering and will result in a fine.

You logically cannot tamper with yourself, which is why players don't get hit with tampering fines for saying they want out of their current team.  Similarly, a team would not be hit with a tampering fine for saying, "Player X no longer has a place in our locker room and we'll be exploring our options."

If you say so.  But I don't recall a player ever being fined for tampering.  But I do recall statements made by players about other players that if said by a coach would be tampering.

Also if Tom Brady was to spend a week during the off season hanging out on Devin McCourty's yacht nobody would think anything of it.   However, if he was to spend a week hanging out with Josh McDaniels it would be tampering.    
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 02:02:01 pm by MyGodWearsAHoodie » Logged

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2022, 03:16:11 pm »

Not sure if your position is that tampering rules are different between leagues, but:

Draymond Green gets $50,000 tampering fine for saying Devin Booker should leave Suns
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2022, 03:59:02 pm »

Not sure if your position is that tampering rules are different between leagues, but:

Draymond Green gets $50,000 tampering fine for saying Devin Booker should leave Suns

I don't follow basketball that closely.  I don't recall an *NFL* player punished for tampering.  But rules differences between the leagues is definitely a thing. 
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