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Author Topic: Dolphins lose draft picks. Ross fined  (Read 1113 times)
ArtieChokePhin
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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2022, 04:20:53 pm »

Not sure if your position is that tampering rules are different between leagues, but:

Draymond Green gets $50,000 tampering fine for saying Devin Booker should leave Suns

Different leagues do have different rules.   In the NBA, you'd be out of the league if you refused to stand for the national anthem.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2022, 05:28:52 pm »

If you say so.  But I don't recall a player ever being fined for tampering.  But I do recall statements made by players about other players that if said by a coach would be tampering.

Also if Tom Brady was to spend a week during the off season hanging out on Devin McCourty's yacht nobody would think anything of it.   However, if he was to spend a week hanging out with Josh McDaniels it would be tampering.    
I tried posting this earlier but got pulled away. Apparently the player can be punished.

As for Brady, the reason he's not being punished is because the NFL's anti-tampering policy puts the onus on teams to report any outside tampering. Basically, the team that does the tampering can be punished, but the player can't. If the Dolphins reached out to Brady first, then they were the ones who tampered. On the other hand, if Brady reached out first, then the Dolphins were supposed to report that to the NFL.

Here's the exact wording of the rule from the league's anti-tampering policy:
"If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player's possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player's contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club."

If Brady reached out to the Dolphins, he had no responsibility to report that a conversation took place, which is why he won't be punished. As for the Dolphins, they clearly didn't follow the NFL's anti-tampering policy, which is why the NFL came down so hard on them.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/top-nfl-training-camp-trades-of-the-past-10-years-khalil-mack-laremy-tunsil-deals-among-most-notable/
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2022, 05:30:57 pm »

I don't recall an *NFL* player punished for tampering.  But rules differences between the leagues is definitely a thing.
If that's your position, fine:

But I do recall statements made by players about other players that if said by a coach would be tampering.
Examples?
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2022, 12:43:29 pm »


Examples?

I recall there was a QB a few years ago (I think it was either Rodgers or Rothsburger, but don't hold me to that) who named in a press conference specific wide receivers he wanted his team to trade for. (*trade for* not free agents)  The only issue was that the QB was throwing his current WRs under the bus, no chatter about tampering.

Also I recall reporting that prior to the Patriots trading for Moss, Tom and Randy had talked extensively and basically Tom had recruited Randy to force a trade to NE.  Given how much folks love (particularly in 2007) to accuse NE of cheating, if that was even close to being illegal it would have been a major hubabu, but even Patriots haters didn't say boo. 
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2022, 03:54:40 pm »

The example I cited was of Draymond Green saying, on camera, that another player should leave his current team.  Not "someone reported that someone else heard that Draymond Green told Devin Booker he should leave."

You said that different leagues have different rules, implying that this kind of conduct - which drew a $50k fine in the NBA - would be handwaved in the NFL.  Fine.

But I do recall statements made by players about other players that if said by a coach would be tampering.
Do you have examples of actual public quotes from players?  Or were you referring entirely to hearsay reporting about rumors around the league?

Ross didn't get punished because there was reporting that he contacted Brady and Payton; he got punished because the league verified that it happened, which happened as a result of an investigation triggered by a grievance filed by a previous employee.  Give me an example of a player publicly tampering with a player under contract to another team and not being punished.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 03:58:58 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

CF DolFan
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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2022, 04:04:54 pm »

Tyreek Hill tweeted to @Jalen Ramsey "let's go" when he was rumored to be looking for a trade

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2022, 04:17:15 pm »

Tyreek Hill tweeted to @Jalen Ramsey "let's go" when he was rumored to be looking for a trade
Or, put another way: Hill tweeted "let's go" to Ramsey which was totally unrelated to his employment.

I am not talking about rumors or reports.  So unless that Hill tweet was a direct reply to a Jalen Ramsey tweet saying "I want to be traded" - not a tweet of a frowny face emoji, or a tweet of "SMH", but a tweet directly asking to be traded - it means nothing.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 04:19:54 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

CF DolFan
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« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2022, 04:36:59 pm »

Or, put another way: Hill tweeted "let's go" to Ramsey which was totally unrelated to his employment.

I am not talking about rumors or reports.  So unless that Hill tweet was a direct reply to a Jalen Ramsey tweet saying "I want to be traded" - not a tweet of a frowny face emoji, or a tweet of "SMH", but a tweet directly asking to be traded - it means nothing.
He deleted it so obviously someone thought there wa something wrong. Proof of violation of rules doesn't require a jury of your peers in the NFL world.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2022, 05:43:16 pm »

Proof of violation of rules doesn't require a jury of your peers in the NFL world.
But it does require proof, which this is very far from being.
This is why Hill did not receive a punishment for tampering.  Q.E.D.

Teams are also not being punished based on rumors or innuendo about tampering; they are being punished for confirmed events.  MIA wouldn't have even been investigated if it weren't for Flores' grievance.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2022, 06:17:01 pm »



Teams are also not being punished based on rumors or innuendo about tampering; they are being punished for confirmed events

And multiple teams have been punished for tampering.  Why?  Because (1) there is a rule and (2) those teams broke the rule. 

To the best of everyone's knowledge no NFL player has been punished or accused of tampering.  This means there is either (1) no rule or (2) there is a rule but nobody has ever broken it.   Do you really believe it is the latter?


https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

I can find nothing to suggest that a player could be punished for tampering. 
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2022, 09:58:32 pm »

If NFL players are commonly making statements like Draymond's clear cut "they gotta get him out of Phoenix" quote, why can't anybody find one?  Why are we instead talking about the time that a player tweeted a praying hands emoji to another player that was rumored to be disgruntled?

Or, put another way: since we know that players can definitely be punished for tampering in the NBA, and there are far more reports about NBA players recruiting each other than any other league (BY A WIDE MARGIN), why don't we see a bunch of reports of NBA players hit with tampering fines?

The answer is not because tampering is less permissible in the NBA than in the NFL.  The answer is that rumors and innuendo don't matter; the league needs direct proof and most players are not dumb enough to tamper in public.  Contrast this to, say, the Kansas City Chiefs, who leaked out contract terms for a newly signed player a day before they were allowed to begin talking to him.  Of course you're going to get investigated when you do that kind of nonsense, and investigations lead to proof.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:12:21 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

ArtieChokePhin
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« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2022, 10:19:23 pm »

Funny thing is, this is the third time a team has had its first round pick taken away.  Tom Brady has been connected to all three incidents.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2022, 01:30:24 pm »

If NFL players are commonly making statements like Draymond's clear cut "they gotta get him out of Phoenix" quote, why can't anybody find one?  Why are we instead talking about the time that a player tweeted a praying hands emoji to another player that was rumored to be disgruntled?

Or, put another way: since we know that players can definitely be punished for tampering in the NBA, and there are far more reports about NBA players recruiting each other than any other league (BY A WIDE MARGIN), why don't we see a bunch of reports of NBA players hit with tampering fines?

The answer is not because tampering is less permissible in the NBA than in the NFL.  The answer is that rumors and innuendo don't matter; the league needs direct proof and most players are not dumb enough to tamper in public.  Contrast this to, say, the Kansas City Chiefs, who leaked out contract terms for a newly signed player a day before they were allowed to begin talking to him.  Of course you're going to get investigated when you do that kind of nonsense, and investigations lead to proof.

I posted the actual NFL policy, the entire policy.  It only talks about what "member clubs" can and can not do.  Nothing about players other than what a member club must do if a player tries to contact them. 

As the article about Green states:   
Quote
The league tightened its rules before this season when it comes to matters such as tampering, .... with one emphasis being the rule prohibiting player-to-player tampering.

The NBA has a recently added rule against player-to-player tampering.  The NFL doesn't. 
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2022, 02:39:17 pm »

Funny thing is, this is the third time a team has had its first round pick taken away.  Tom Brady has been connected to all three incidents.

And all three times the the punishment was administrated by a former Jets employee against an AFCE team.  Unlike when a Jets employee tripped a Dolphin's player in a game and it was only a fine with no loss of draft picks.   
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2022, 03:33:20 pm »

Mike Florio (PFT) originally broke the Brady to Miami story and then the Brady/Payton story. He is now suggesting Miami already had deals in place with Tampa and New Orleans and as such that's why neither got compensated for the violation. He doesn't think the Patriots cared since they weren't planning to keep him. 

If true it just furthur proves how Ross isn't alone in these things.
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