The midterms

[CF DolFan]

For the most part property tax and sales tax was very  similar.  Income tax was mostly irrelevant as they were retired with very little taxable income and living off of savings. Despite the claims of FL politicians the number one draw of Florida is weather not anything they actually do.

Kind of convienent to skip over state taxes of which Florida does not have. None, nada zip and those pensions get taxed as well as social security.

It's always weird to hear conservatives talk about people loving the economic freedom of TX and FL, when CA has a lot more residents than either one.
"Lots of people want to live here" means your style of governance is better... unless we are talking about every major city in America (nearly all of which are heavily Democratic) where suddenly that stops being the case, and the number of people living there is somehow irrelevant.

Lol ... are you being serious or just trying to see what sticks? Those metropolis that you so brag about are filled with low income and homeless who really don't have other choices. The free crap is given out so they come. The remaining poor soles around the state are left to provide for them. It's no secret why those cities have the highest homelessness, crime, etc and it isn't because they choosing have a better quality of life. The state of California's population declined 0.3% between 2021 and 2022. San Franciso lost like the largest amount of people in the country in the last couple of years. PLaces like New York, Chicago etc are still losing people as well while Florida and Texas are continuing to grow at the fastest paces ever. Something changed and it isn't global warming ... hahahaha

[Phishfan]

The data I saw shows New York and Chicago are still growing. There was a down trend during the pandemic but that is understandable.

[Spider-Dan]

Those metropolis that you so brag about are filled with low income and homeless who really don't have other choices.

You cannot seriously believe that the most expensive real estate in the country is occupied by "low income and homeless."
And to be honest, I don't think you want to compare the income levels of crime-ridden blue states to those of freedom-loving red states.  We all know the answer to that particular question.

The remaining poor soles around the state are left to provide for them.

We have already previously discussed how "poor souls" across the country are forced to subsidize low-tax red states that don't want to provide for their own residents.

It's no secret why those cities have the highest homelessness, crime, etc and it isn't because they choosing have a better quality of life.

They have higher homelessness because they haven't taken innovative steps like Texas to simply outlaw homelessness.

The state of California's population declined 0.3% between 2021 and 2022. San Franciso lost like the largest amount of people in the country in the last couple of years.

People are leaving CA - which is still the most populous state in the union, by far - because it's really expensive to live here.  And the reason why real estate is expensive in CA is not, say, property taxes, as CA has lower property taxes than both FL and TX.  Real estate is expensive in CA because more people want to live here than in any other state.  I'm sure you're a fan of capitalism, so you should understand what extremely high demand does to prices.

But you're right: people are moving to cheaper red states, not because they like the policies of the government, but because they can no longer afford to live in a more desirable place.  And when they arrive, guess what they do?  They try to "California-ize" their new communities, which causes no shortage of bellyaching from conservatives like you.

The circle is squared.

edit: fixed broken link formatting

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Kind of convienent to skip over state taxes of which Florida does not have. None, nada zip and those pensions get taxed as well as social security.

They did NOT move to Florida to save money on taxes.  They moved to Florida for warmer weather.  Other factors included already having family and friends there and being closer to original state than say AZ, TX or California.  In some cases they may have saved money.  But that wasn’t the reason any of them moved there.

[CF DolFan]

It's a very small minority. People didn't move to Florida to turn it into the place they left behind.

I know about two dozen people who have moved to Florida.  Not a single one moved to Florida because they wanted a "Red State"  they moved to Florida because they hate snow.

^^^ Sweet  mercy, CF...you just make shit up that matches up with whatever story you want to tell.

"I know this guy who thinks _____"

"I met this person who said ______"

What a maroon...

DeSantis wins by almost 20%. He turned 1.5 million people. That's a hell of a flip in just 4 years. It's as if my lies could have been truth all long. Go figure.

[Dave Gray]

I think you're right, CF, but for the wrong reasons.

There has been a demographic shift.  The Cuban population down South is bigger and it's way redder.  The "socialism" message has played incredibly well down here.  It worked.

Florida is red.  Red.  Red.

But it's been red and this is just a nail in the coffin.  Florida will not be in play for 2 decades.

I'm thinking there will probably be a shift in the Democratic party in Florida away from moderates.  Dems ran a former Repulican and a Sherrif and both lost pretty huge.

[CF DolFan]

I don't disagree with you in your area. There is no doubt blacks and latinos in south florida have turned but in my area where we have a ton of people who have relocated to Florida many are doing so as Republican voters.

[Fau Teixeira]

My blue state had a blue wave and even stuff like state reps and state senators went blue in my area.

I'm glad to see Fetterman won. Also looks like Georgia is going to a runoff in december.

All in all the predicted red wave didn't happen and looks like Trump endorsed candidates lost big across the country.  On the flip side where Biden actively campaigned, it looks like Democrats won almost 100%.

Biden has performed the best out of any president in recent history during their first midterm. He did better than Reagan, Carter, Clinton, Bush, Trump, and Obama.

[Dave Gray]

Here's the positive takeaway for America:

I don't mind that people who don't agree with me win elections.  That's how it's supposed to work.  So, if the party in power is blamed for high gas or groceries or inflation and the thought is that the other party can do better, we switch.  I don't agree that the other party can do a better job, but it's not up to me alone, so we vote.

In Florida, several people I don't like won huge in the state.  While that sucks for me, it's fine.  They ran, the won.

For me, for the good of America, there are some non-negotiables.  Election denial, insurrection -- essentially any power-grab attempt that isn't a reflection of the rights of the voter -- that's where democracy dies.  And that shit failed HARD tonight.  So, I think that Brian Kemp is a bad choice for governor -- whatever.  He won.  And that's fine.   Because he didn't try to overthrow the government.  That election denial mindset was soundly defeated everywhere.  Democracy prevailed last night, even if it's an outcome I wouldn't have chosen and that's what matters.

Gerrymandering is the next thing we have to fight like that, but what we saw was a huge step.

The other thing is abortion rights.  People want legal abortion.  Conservatives, liberals, moderates -- everyone wants it.  And it's winning at the ballot box.  It's good, because it's a reflection of the people.  But it's also good for the progress of the nation.  When women control their own bodies, when women, in general, have better control of their lives over men, society works better.

So, we should be discussing taxes and safety vs. security -- that's when democracy works best.  And we did.  Without violence.  Without bullshit.  I'm very hopeful, actually.

----

As for Desantis winning by 20, it's not what I would have chosen.  People seem to really like him and while I definitely don't, the things he's doing are nothingburgers to me.  It's all stupid shit that amounts to shuffling papers around -- fighting with Disney, Carnival Cruise Lines, Fauci, immigrants from other states, which books are in the school library, drag queens reading to kids -- it's all culture war shit that is not an issue of importance to me or my family.  I think it's a dumb waste of resources that isn't helping anyone, but any harm from it is indirect.  It's not good, but it's not meaningful policy.  So, whatever.  I'm not too broken up about it.

[Dave Gray]

Oh, one more thing -- A GOP house is fine, if that's what the people want.

But what is not fine is a GOP house that is stacked, where they're doing stunt bullshit, like impeaching Biden.  That's just garbage non-sense resource and time-wasting and would be a terrible outcome.  So, if the Dems win small, fine.  If the GOP wins small, fine -- because there won't be enough of them to be doing bullshit.  It will be gridlock, like always...not good, but the last thing we need is one branch of government trying to take out another as a revenge tactic, where there isn't merit.

[DenverFinFan]

Colorado went even bluer, legalized shrooms and lowered state income taxes on top. Pretty rad.

[Dave Gray]

In regard to Florida state income tax, that's not something Republicans get to take credit for.

We've had Democratic control of things, governors, senators, etc, throughout history.  We haven't had a State income tax since 1855.  So, yes, it's a thing people like about moving here, but that's not something you need to vote Republican to achieve.

[Spider-Dan]

Washington state and Nevada also have no income tax.

Where it really gets interesting is when you have WA (with no income tax) sharing a border with OR (which has no sales tax).  The shenanigans are exactly what you would expect.

[DenverFinFan]

In regard to Florida state income tax, that's not something Republicans get to take credit for.

We've had Democratic control of things, governors, senators, etc, throughout history.  We haven't had a State income tax since 1855.  So, yes, it's a thing people like about moving here, but that's not something you need to vote Republican to achieve.

I’d like to see lower tax ( across the board ) democrats become a thing. Our governor here is a democrat who isn’t in favor of increases in taxes and balanced the budget that allowed an old provision to distribute extra rebates to residents. You can find money to take care of those who need it and provide vital services while still not punishing individuals and business.

[dolphins4life]

I’d like to see lower tax ( across the board ) democrats become a thing. Our governor here is a democrat who isn’t in favor of increases in taxes and balanced the budget that allowed an old provision to distribute extra rebates to residents. You can find money to take care of those who need it and provide vital services while still not punishing individuals and business.

That sounds like the GOP to a tee.

Then again, one of our Republican governors, (Romney) instituted Obamacare in our state long before Obama did.

Things can be confusing

Charlie Baker's response to Covid was very liberal.  He took aggressive action.  Our state did not run out of beds in the hospital, and most people did not experience financial hardships.