Edward Snowden

[Dave Gray]

In my movie watching, I came across a good documentary (available on Prime) called Citizenfour.

It documents Snowden's decision to whistleblow and how it all went down.  It was pretty fascinating.

I didn't really know where I stood on him before.  It's a complicated situation.  What he did was no doubt against the law.  But he did something that was against the law because it was the only way to expose a greater threat that was also against the law.

In hindsight, I think it's probably the most negative aspect of the Obama administration (the drone stuff/spying stuff).  It exposed a real threat to our country.

I always wondered if he was right, but going about it the wrong way.  I'm not sure that there was a right way to go about it, because likely nothing else would have worked.  He had to reveal the proof (which was classified) in order to prove it was happening.

After seeing him, there's no doubt that the guy is incredibly intelligent and his motivations are true.  He wasn't doing it for fame -- quite the opposite.  It was calculated and he was fully expecting to go to jail for it.  The guy has principles and big balls.

It's a shame that he ended up a tool of Russian propaganda, because that's the country that granted political asylum, but from what I can tell, he is vocally against Russian bullshit and Putin by name -- he just can't leave.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

John Oliver did an interview of him a few years ago.  It is probably still on youtube.

[Pappy13]

After seeing him, there's no doubt that the guy is incredibly intelligent and his motivations are true.

I watched the documentary and I've seen the story before, but I think you are giving him too much credit. My take on him and Julian Assange is about one in the same. Wannabe hackers. Well in Assange's case actual hacker. State they are doing it all for the good of everyone else. Actually probably doing it because they kinda don't like authority and just want to bring them down just to prove they can. Think they are the smartest person in the room and often times are right but motives are highly questionable. Yeah they are intelligent alright, enough to make themselves sound like they are doing things for all the right reasons. Hackers always believe they are justified in doing the things they do, but if they really were all that altruistic, then why'd they get into the game in the first place? It's not like Snowden was squeeky clean. There's a lot of speculation that he duped a lot of his coworkers into giving him their access to be able to steal all those documents, etc. Does that sound like someone who's thinking about nothing but others? Ok, so maybe that stuff is all made up and maybe it's not and maybe he really wasn't as important a person as he says (thinks) he is. Maybe the truth is that the US is really really embarrassed by what all this low level CIA worker was able to accomplish and really just want it all to go away.

Don't forget for all their high and mighty talk both Assange and Snowden sought asylum. How come they didn't hang around to actually see things through like they said they were prepared to? Snowden said he expected to be imprisoned, but he's not and it's because he fled the country. That doesn't exactly sound like a stand up guy to me. Sure it sounds great. Actions speak louder than words to me.

Now for sure the CIA was doing some shady shit. Um, this is a shock to anyone? That's pretty much why they exist. It's not like the US is the only one. Every country out there was doing the same shady shit. No, that doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't mean that what Snowden did really made any difference whatsoever as they are probably all doing the same shady shit all over again, they're just doing it better this time.

[Spider-Dan]

I give Snowden more credit than Assange.  Snowden at least seems (to me) like his motives were genuinely to expose wrongdoing, whereas Assange was basically just selectively leaking stuff for partisan advantage; a mouthpiece for foreign adversaries that want to destabilize America (and the West more broadly).

[Denver2]

Once upon a time I thought pretty highly of him but eh maybe there is more to him ending up in Russia. Russia taking him him granted Russia a lot of goodwill among certain political good will from lefties and libertarians in the West.

I agree though that the US spying programs are disgusting violations of civil liberties that are just waiting to be fully utilized by a strong man in the White House.
Maybe he should have went to the ACLU instead of Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras.
Idk, no easy answers.


I also agree that he is seems more sincere than Assange. Assange leaked his shit selectively ( or by info dumping which is equally dangerous ) as a political weapon and I’ll never forgive him for aiding Trump.

[Dave Gray]

I came away from the documentary being pretty sympathetic towards him.

I don't necessarily think "highly" of him and I don't think I agree with his general paranoia, but I do think he's earnest.  I mean...he gave up his whole life.  From what I understand, he doesn't want to be in Russia and was trying to get to South America, but that's where he was granted asylum.  He has spoken out against Putin, but he doesn't control the narrative and they're using him as a political tool.

I think the pretty basic thing is that we were spying on people indiscriminately without any kind of judge's sign-off.  He has (and I agree with this part) the belief that this is dangerous because it's inevitable that it will be used for nefarious reasons since there is no check or accountability.  The places doing it were lying about it under oath, so exposing it this way was the only recourse.  Or at least he thought.

He made sure not to implicate anyone else.

I don't think he's in the same camp as Assange, who appeared to push an agenda more than Snowden.