Will this speaker vote be more or less

[pondwater]

Liberalism isn't crazy.  It's a different philosophy.  These aren't crazy people devoid of intelligence and incapable of governance.


The US is getting more liberal and that's how progress works.  So, the party will reflect that.

All empires eventually fall. So in that sense we are progressing toward that outcome. However, since that's not the desired outcome, in reality we are regressing. The U.S is well on it's way to extinction.

[Spider-Dan]

I get that you guys are way left and think they are normal but 10 years or so ago they would be considered as extreme to the mainstream Democrats as Matt Gaetz is to the GOP.

As I have already asked you before: what are some of the "extreme" positions espoused by today's Congressional Democrats that are not already the law of the land in, say, Canada?
Or is it your position that Canada is also governed by the extreme left?

I get that Hoodie and Spider don't think that I actually know anyone but I do actually know people who used to follow Bernie that now think the Democrats are nuts and have moved to Independent.

"Independent" is not a synonym for "moderate."
The most extreme partisans are frequently independent, as they distrust the party establishment.  The fact that you're citing Bernie supporters who have left the Democratic Party to become independents tracks perfectly with this premise; Bernie himself is a registered Independent.

The Center for Politics noted based on information from American National Election Studies surveys  ... findings indicate that from 2012 to 2020, there was a dramatic increase in liberalism among Democratic voters. This leftward shift has been somewhat greater among white Democrats than among nonwhite Democrats. However, both white and nonwhite Democrats moved to the left over that timespan.

As shocking as this might be to any regular viewer of Fox News, "became more liberal" does not, in any way, imply "became more extreme."
You would quickly and intuitively understand this claim if we were to substitute "became more conservative" in its place.

This is also why conservative Democrats like JFK rarely exist.

Setting aside the comedy of reaching back sixty years into the pre-civil-rights era to find a "conservative Democrat":

1) JFK was very far from conservative
2) Conservative Democrats still exist in Congress today (google "blue dog coalition")

[CF DolFan]

As I have already asked you before: what are some of the "extreme" positions espoused by today's Congressional Democrats that are not already the law of the land in, say, Canada?
Or is it your position that Canada is also governed by the extreme left?

I really think this is a given and you are purposely being silly.

"Independent" is not a synonym for "moderate."
The most extreme partisans are frequently independent, as they distrust the party establishment.  The fact that you're citing Bernie supporters who have left the Democratic Party to become independents tracks perfectly with this premise; Bernie himself is a registered Independent.

Independent is a voter who does not align themselves with a political party. An independent is variously defined as a voter who votes for candidates on issues rather than on the basis of a political ideology. This includes many libertarians. Bernie is a self admitted Socialist so his "affiliation" is strictly for political reasons. He loves the kickbacks and free houses that the Democrat party gives him so that's where his vote lies.

As shocking as this might be to any regular viewer of Fox News, "became more liberal" does not, in any way, imply "became more extreme."
You would quickly and intuitively understand this claim if we were to substitute "became more conservative" in its place.
Setting aside the comedy of reaching back sixty years into the pre-civil-rights era to find a "conservative Democrat":

1) JFK was very far from conservative
2) Conservative Democrats still exist in Congress today (google "blue dog coalition")

"Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country" is right out of the Liberal handbook for you? Hahaha ...  Kennedy was a conservative. His two great causes were anticommunism and economic growth. His tax cuts, which spurred one of the greatest economic booms in our history, were fiercely opposed by his more liberal advisers. He fought against unions. Least not forget he supported the second amendment. "The battle for American freedom was begun by the thousands of farmers and tradesmen who made up the Minutemen -- citizens who were ready to defend their liberty at a moment's notice. Today we need a nation of minutemen; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort." — John F. Kennedy

I have to admit this is why I don't often argue with you. Not because you aren't intelligent but because you will say anything to try and win an argument regardless of if you know it is true or not. You are the progressive version of Trump.

[masterfins]

I think this is just another example of the need for term limits.  This is mostly all about political gamesmanship and getting re-elected.  It just doesn't serve the people that these legislators were put in office to serve.  And that goes for both Democrats and Republicans.  A colossal waste of time and taxpayer's dollars.

[pondwater]

You are the progressive version of Trump.

The irony LMFAO

[Spider-Dan]

I really think this is a given and you are purposely being silly.

I don't understand this response.  Are you saying it's a given that... Canada is an "extreme left" country?

An independent is variously defined as a voter who votes for candidates on issues rather than on the basis of a political ideology.

This is nonsense.  "Issues" ARE political ideology; your position on an issue is determined by your political beliefs.  That's how beliefs work.

"Independent" voters are consistently some of the most politically extreme voters in the country, specifically because they believe the established parties are too squishy and centrist.
"Independent" does not mean "moderate."

Kennedy was a conservative. His two great causes were anticommunism and economic growth.

JFK and his brother (who was also his attorney general) were progressives who believed in and supported the expansion of civil rights; civil rights that were opposed by conservatives every step of the way.

But I guess by your logic, since LBJ - the president who signed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, and Medicare into law - also expanded the war in Vietnam against the Communists, he must have also been a "conservative."

You are the progressive version of Trump.

Given that you happily voted twice to elect actual Trump President, this is not the clever own you think it is.

[Dave Gray]

Judging political figures from 60+ years ago against today's version of liberal or conservatism doesn't make sense.

JFK was a progressive as compared to the opposite party of his own era.
So was Lincoln, though.

It wouldn't surprised me if Lincoln opposed interracial marriage, which would make him so far socially right by today's standard, that he would be considered a White Supremacist.

You have to judge people against the backdrop of the political environment in which they lived.

[pondwater]

Judging political figures from 60+ years ago against today's version of liberal or conservatism doesn't make sense.

JFK was a progressive as compared to the opposite party of his own era.
So was Lincoln, though.

It wouldn't surprised me if Lincoln opposed interracial marriage, which would make him so far socially right by today's standard, that he would be considered a White Supremacist.

You have to judge people against the backdrop of the political environment in which they lived.

LMFAO, they say Trump is a racist. In 2023, liberals would cancel Lincoln and launch him to another planet never to be seen again. Lincoln was the worst thing that ever happened to this country. Even back then...

[Phishfan]

 

[masterfins]

Judging political figures from 60+ years ago against today's version of liberal or conservatism doesn't make sense.

JFK was a progressive as compared to the opposite party of his own era.
So was Lincoln, though.

It wouldn't surprised me if Lincoln opposed interracial marriage, which would make him so far socially right by today's standard, that he would be considered a White Supremacist.

You have to judge people against the backdrop of the political environment in which they lived.

+1

[Spider-Dan]

Lincoln was the worst thing that ever happened to this country. Even back then...

Hmmm, when was the last time I heard a conservative complain about Abraham Lincoln here...

Maybe "Honest" Abe wasn't so honest and a hypocrite piece of shit. Maybe he just had more guns and resources to win the war and was able to bully the states out of their rights. Maybe he was like Obama and didn't actually give a shit about black people or the issue of slavery. I suspect if the tide of the war had swung the other way, and the south would have won the war, that the issue of states rights and secession would have never been questioned.

Oops, that was somebody else.  My mistake, please carry on...

[pondwater]

Hmmm, when was the last time I heard a conservative complain about Abraham Lincoln here...

Oops, that was somebody else.  My mistake, please carry on...

I have to admit this is why I don't often argue with you. Not because you aren't intelligent but because you will say anything to try and win an argument regardless of if you know it is true or not. You are the progressive version of Trump.

[Dave Gray]

In 2023, liberals would cancel Lincoln and launch him to another planet never to be seen again.

This is probably true but it's not a bad thing.  While Lincoln was a progressive in his day, it wouldn't surprise me that his views on women, race, native people, class, religion --- who knows what -- would be grossly out of step with the norms of today.

He could be adamant that women not have opinions about their own sexuality, that races not marry, that Muslims be cast out of America, or any other simply outdated and unacceptable view by today's standards that wasn't a thing in the 1800s.

[Spider-Dan]

You are the progressive version of Trump.

Again, this is not a sick burn coming from Trump supporters/defenders/apologists.  It really just highlights how hollow and cynical the politics of the right are: y'all boost politicians that even you think are terrible.  I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which I, an Obama supporter, tell someone "You're the conservative version of Obama" as an insult, and it just... doesn't make sense?

If you want to know why Republican control of the House has been such a pathetic circus, this is why.  Conservatives in this country have come totally unmoored from all moral foundations, to the point where they "insult" their opposition by openly comparing them to the leader of the Republican Party.  How can any candidate for Speaker of the House possibly lead such an aimless, unhinged party?

[Engineering Owl]

Rep. Mike Johnson voted new House speaker.