Collinsworth on Josh Allen

[Dave Gray]

This shouldn't bother me, but I can't help but find it irritating when these general national-media analysts don't know the people they're covering.

Josh Allen is a great QB.  He's big, he's tough, he's strong, he can make throws, etc.  But the hole in his game is that he doesn't play well in crunch time.  He's known for throwing the easy ball in the dirt when the game is on the line.  He's not clutch and gets rattled when things aren't going well.  He's never won an overtime game in his entire career.  Fair or not, that's the knock on the guy.  He's kind of notorious for being bad under pressure.

Last night, Chris Collinsworth kept saying "Josh Allen is at his best with the game on the line".  He kept saying it again and again.  And it's not only NOT true, it's the opposite of true.  He plays his worst with the game on the line.

It's just annoying to have to hear it.



As much as I love Tua, it would be malpractice to say, "Tua is really at his best when he's using his arm-strength to hit deep balls over the top". 

[pondwater]

As much as I love Tua, it would be malpractice to say, "Tua is really at his best when he's using his arm-strength to hit deep balls over the top". 

Tua has thrown some lame ducks with too much arch and air under them, mainly due to his foot position or body positioning. He has absolutely dropped some very accurate deep balls on a dime this year. While his arm strength isn't his main strength, it certainly isn't an issue or as bad as people say it is.

[Dave Gray]

Tua has thrown some lame ducks with too much arch and air under them, mainly due to his foot position or body positioning. He has absolutely dropped some very accurate deep balls on a dime this year. While his arm strength isn't his main strength, it certainly isn't an issue or as bad as people say it is.

No, but that's not the point.  It would be foolish for an analyst to say of Tua "these deep balls are when he's at his best".

[pondwater]

No, but that's not the point.  It would be foolish for an analyst to say of Tua "these deep balls are when he's at his best".

I agree with you about Allen, they're just on his nuts. But stat wise, if they said that about Tua, they would be somewhat correct. He's in the top 3 in +10, +20, +30, +40, and +50 yard receptions. That doesn't account for YAC, but then again he's also top 3 in air yards and yards per attempt. The only time you have to worry about Tua is when he gets happy feet and arches his back and and heaves the ball like he's launching that shit to the moon. Even then, some of those are complete.

[Dave Gray]

Tua is great and he's been great downfield.  It's not because his arm-strength is the best part of his game, that's all i was getting at.  I didn't want to get sidetracked.

Main point: Allen is notorious for being a bad pressure player.  To say he's at his best with the game on the line is a dumb thing to say.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Tua has thrown some lame ducks with too much arch and air under them, mainly due to his foot position or body positioning. He has absolutely dropped some very accurate deep balls on a dime this year. While his arm strength isn't his main strength, it certainly isn't an issue or as bad as people say it is.

Early on, that was from the hip injury he carried from College into the NFL effecting his mechanics - a lot of people questioned his arm strength after he took over from Fitzpatrick, but it was the lingering effects of that injury before the draft.

If we get a full year of Tua this season with no injuries, it will be the first one we get seeing what he can really do. I'm pretty confident, but I guess you knew that already.

[fyo]

Early on, that was from the hip injury he carried from College into the NFL effecting his mechanics - a lot of people questioned his arm strength after he took over from Fitzpatrick, but it was the lingering effects of that injury before the draft.

If we get a full year of Tua this season with no injuries, it will be the first one we get seeing what he can really do. I'm pretty confident, but I guess you knew that already.

I'm a huge Tua fan and I don't think his arm strength is a big issue, but he definitely doesn't have a cannon. Unless we get some velocities on the table, it's going to be hard to be accurate, but it sure feels like he throws a softer ball than a good deal of other players and that his longer balls tend to get a lot more air. Obviously, longest completed pass as a proxy is no good (guess who has that one right now? I doubt you'd guess if you didn't know it. It's Tannehill.)

[Brian Fein]

I just want to say Justin Herbert also sucks with the game on the line.  That is all.

[AQNOR]

I just want to say Justin Herbert also sucks with the game on the line.  That is all.

I totally agree with the sentiment here regarding Josh Allen and Justin Herbert.   They both remind me of Tony Romo.  That guy was a very good QB as well, but you would shudder if you had to count on him to pull victory out of the jaws of defeat in the closing seconds of the game.   He just couldn't get it done.

[Pappy13]

Just FYI, Josh Allen has more game winning drives than Patrick Mahomes.

Allen has 16 game winning drives in 83 games. Mahomes has 15 in 86 games. For comparison Tua has 7 in 42. Slight advantage to Allen over both of them. Still not convinced? Allen has 12 4th quarter come from behind victories, Mahomes has 13 and Tua has 5. Allen is pretty much on par with Mahomes in this category and I think Mahomes has an incredible reputation for being clutch.

I think Collinsworth is at least partially right about Josh Allen, he's actually really good with the game on the line. Now, he's been bad in a few overtime games and I know he lost one very prominent overtime game to Mahomes when his offense never touched the field so no, he hasn't ever won in overtime, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's bad under pressure. Some of the losses were not on him. Some were, but I don't think that stat alone tells the whole story since it's a pretty small sample size. He's only played in 5 total overtime games and in at least one of them his offense never touched the field. I don't really have his overtime stats for the other losses, if someone would like to compile those, I'd be interested.

Since I'm sure some of you would be interested, Herbert has 14 game winning drives and 11 4th quarter come from behind victories in 54 games.

And yeah I know these stats don't really mean a lot, but honestly I don't think many of you watch the games that Miami isn't in all that much. Allen is pretty good with the game on the line.

[AQNOR]

Just FYI, Josh Allen has more game winning drives than Patrick Mahomes.

Allen has 16 game winning drives in 83 games. Mahomes has 15 in 86 games. For comparison Tua has 7 in 42. Slight advantage to Allen over both of them. Still not convinced? Allen has 12 4th quarter come from behind victories, Mahomes has 13 and Tua has 5. Allen is pretty much on par with Mahomes in this category and I think Mahomes has an incredible reputation for being clutch.

The question is, how many times has Allen had an opportunity to mount a game winning drive and blown it?   How about Mahomes or Tua?   That's what you have to compare to the number of game winning drives as opposed to the number of games played.

[Pappy13]

The question is, how many times has Allen had an opportunity to mount a game winning drive and blown it?   How about Mahomes or Tua?   That's what you have to compare to the number of game winning drives as opposed to the number of games played.

I agree, but then just saying that Allen is 0-5 in overtime games proves that he chokes under pressure is equally flawed.

[Denver2]

Collinsworth is the worst of all announcers and there are some bad ones. If he’s calling a game it’s on mute or Spanish.

[Dave Gray]

I agree, but then just saying that Allen is 0-5 in overtime games proves that he chokes under pressure is equally flawed.

Is it?

OT is the ultimate pressure situation.

Tallying an overall number doesn't make sense.  Mahomes was blowing people out for years, so there weren't a lot of close games to choose from.

I'm surprised to see you defend Allen being good in the crunch.  I have felt just the opposite is true, but I respect your opinion.   Allen looks rattled to me at the end of games when things are close.

[Sunstroke]

Is it?

OT is the ultimate pressure situation.

Devil's advocate throwing spitballs here... but what is the difference between a QB choking in the 5 minute OT period, or choking in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter of a tie game?


Hmmmm...