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Author Topic: QB Protection vs. Penalties  (Read 607 times)
Dave Gray
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« on: January 17, 2024, 09:04:57 am »

I think the single biggest thing that I hate about the NFL right now is the QB protection.

Funny enough, I'm all for QB protection, but I think that the rules are being uncompetitively applied and a few QBs (most notably Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes) are gaming the system to simultaneously get protection, but also draw calls by manipulating the rule.

It has to stop.

We need to loosen the rules for defenders to be able to hit a guy in play.  In order to give yourself up, you need to give yourself up BEFORE contact, else, you're choosing to make yourself part of the football play.  This bang-bang stuff where QBs are sliding at the point of contact is bullshit.  Also, players don't exist in a vacuum.  Josh Allen is a huge guy who uses designed runs and initiates contact.  He's essentially a fullback when he's in the open field that takes two guys to bring him down.  The idea that he gets last-minute slide protection is just dumb.  It'd be like a fullback sliding into hits to draw penalties.

Worse yet, Allen is manipulating the rules to get calls, and then whining about it.  It's like flopping.  It's so, so bad for competition and does nothing to actually protect QBs.  The defender should just lay him out, since you have to assume he's going to run on you.  You're going to get 15 yards -- might as well hit the guy.  Here is Josh Allen pretending to slide, only to then run for a TD.  It's disgusting, unsportsmanlike behavior: https://www.reddit.com/r/steelers/comments/197pg4d/we_probably_were_not_winning_the_game_regardless/

Mahomes does it differently.  He pretends that he's going for the sideline, eases up his run so that the defender doesn't absolutely blow him up, and then he tiptoes up the sideline and additional 5 yards after feigning going out of bounds.  ...sometimes, he'll tiptoe on the white, get shoved, and then flop onto the sidelines.

It's ruining the competition and it is more dangerous.  I think that defensive players need some grace yardage...maybe you can hit on the white of the sideline, and if a player wants to give themselves up and not go for the first down, either slide ahead of time or get past the white of the sideline.
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2024, 10:03:52 am »


I see Mahomes flopping and whining for the roughing call so fucking all the time that I just want to scream...


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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2024, 10:49:47 am »

just make it that if a runner is going forward they're fair game like any ball carrier. backwards, they get protected with a slide / going out of bounds. problem solved
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Pappy13
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2024, 10:58:25 am »

just make it that if a runner is going forward they're fair game like any ball carrier. backwards, they get protected with a slide / going out of bounds. problem solved
I'd change it to the line of scrimmage. As long as the QB hasn't crossed the line of scrimmage they can slide and be protected, once they pass the line of scrimmage sliding isn't an option, better head for the sideline or you're getting hit.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2024, 11:34:30 am »

I am fine with the slide, but it needs to be the slider's responsibility to slide before the defender makes a football move.  None of this sliding up to the point of contact bullshit.  If you're giving yourself up, do it and you don't get the football play.

Also, any motion that suggests a slide or intent (like what Allen does) is a dead ball at least, but preferably a unsportsmanlike personal foul as well.  That has no business in football.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2024, 04:10:18 pm »

I see Mahomes flopping and whining for the roughing call so fucking all the time that I just want to scream...

He and Josh Allen are the biggest whiners in the NFL. Great QBs but always begging for a call.
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masterfins
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2024, 10:57:25 pm »

I forget what QB did this, this past weekend.  QB had run up the sideline then out of bounds before getting hit.  Later on the same scenario and the defender pulled up to a stop not to hit him and the QB ducked around him to pickup another 15 yds.  Now if the defender had hit him he would most definitely have been flagged.  I hate to give the refs more ability to make judgement calls, but if the QB's are going to get so much protection, then the Refs should be able to rule them down when they act like they are giving up just to juke the defender.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2024, 06:57:19 am »

The biggest issue is money. Top QBs put butts in seats and that’s more important than fairness of the game to the NFL. That’s why it’s possible to get a roughing the passer call on every tackle regardless of if it’s legit. Sucks to us that appreciate great defense but that’s the been going on for years now. Maybe if we had more good qbs they would change their mindset?
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2024, 09:33:16 am »

It's going to get to the point where a coach or DC tells the team, that if the QB is running, blow them up every time and they'll take the penalties if they happen to be late.

They'll get 2-3 roughing penalties in the first half, but it'll instigate change in the 2nd
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2024, 01:20:41 pm »

The biggest issue is money.

I don't believe this.  Sure, it's the NFL motivation, but this isn't any safer.  The league isn't any safer because Josh Allen is getting bullshit PIs on slides he creates.

It's not any safer because Mahomes is tietoing the sidelines and then getting shoved.

I'm not asking this big name QBs to take hits...just to opposite.  I'm saying that they should avoid hits...or don't.  But don't avoid hits right up until you intentionally get hit for a flag.
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masterfins
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2024, 12:13:30 am »

It's going to get to the point where a coach or DC tells the team, that if the QB is running, blow them up every time and they'll take the penalties if they happen to be late.

They'll get 2-3 roughing penalties in the first half, but it'll instigate change in the 2nd

Really not a bad idea.  I'm not saying hit a QB two yards out of bounds, but if he's close to the sideline nail him; maybe he'll think twice before trying to get an extra yard or two because he thinks he can get away with it.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2024, 09:07:17 am »

They should make a rule that if a QB "appears" to give up he is down. Maybe even tack on a 5 yard penalty if he tries to fake someone out by pretending to give up. The roughing the passer call is already based on judgement so this should fit right in.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2024, 09:13:37 am »

They should make a rule that if a QB "appears" to give up he is down. Maybe even tack on a 5 yard penalty if he tries to fake someone out by pretending to give up. The roughing the passer call is already based on judgement so this should fit right in.

Most definitely.  That is a bare minimum, but I don't even think that's enough.

Sliding or intentionally going out of bounds to avoid contact should be thought of as an action IN LIEU OF a football play.  You decided to protect yourself instead of going for the play.  And that's great.  But if you go for the football play, you're a legal man.
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2024, 12:27:19 am »

Funny enough, I'm all for QB protection, but I think that the rules are being uncompetitively applied and a few QBs (most notably Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes) are gaming the system to simultaneously get protection, but also draw calls by manipulating the rule.

It has to stop.

It sucks when the same rules apparent don't apply to other QBs, like Hurts and Jackson (or in the past Cam Newton or Michael Vick, who never got the same protection as Brady, Manning and Brees).

Defenders can't lower the helmet in a tackle, but apparently (some) QBs, WRs and even RBs can initiate helmet to helmet contact without drawing an unnecessary roughness penalty.

I agree with you Dave, the way the rules should be redrawn to be applied equally and fairly to all players. As it is the whole thing is a mess.
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