Trump might be losing even his most diehard supportes.

[Pappy13]

Well first of all, the Trump administration designated MS-13 as a foreign terrorist organization. If a person is a known member then they are treated like a terrorist and not a citizen. I get you probably think they are just nice illegals looking for a peaceful place to live but the law doesn't care about your feelings.  

I wonder if you will be so cavilier in your attitude when they determine that you are part of a foreign terrorist organization because you have a tatoo? Personally I don't think the President is able to make that determination without due process. He's not exactly shown much ability to be objective.

I'm all for deporting members of MS-13. I'm not for determining that you are a member of MS-13 because you have a tatoo. I don't personally have any tatoos but most of my family members do and none of them are members of MS-13.

[Sibster]

Please explain to me how you determine someone's citizenship without due process? No one is suggesting that if they are illegal (as determined by due process) that they can't be deported, it's the fact they aren't even determining if they are illegal or not (by due process) that people are upset about. You understand that right?

If you're legal, you should be carrying your green card and another government issued photo ID at all times.  End of story.

[Pappy13]

If you're legal, you should be carrying your green card and another government issued photo ID at all times.  End of story.

And if you are, they are deporting you anyway if you are member of MS-13 which can be determined by if you have a tatoo. Try again.

[Spider-Dan]

Well first of all, the Trump administration designated MS-13 as a foreign terrorist organization. If a person is a known member then they are treated like a terrorist and not a citizen.

"If you are a Known Criminal then you don't deserve due process" is certainly a lot faster than that whole "jury trial" or "innocent until proven guilty" stuff!

For Republicans, unlimited due process and even pardons, including for those caught on tape who plead guilty.
For everyone else, the sentence comes before the trial.

But I guess it's good to know that you apparently believe if President AOC declares the Proud Boys or the Oath Keepers to be "terrorist organizations," we don't have to bother with all those trials and can just proceed directly to imprisoning them indefinitely.

[Spider-Dan]

And if you are, they are deporting you anyway if you are member of MS-13 which can be determined by if you have a tatoo. Try again.

You don't actually have to have a tattoo.  Photoshopping it on you later is proof enough for the President to proclaim you literally have "M S one three" tattooed on your knuckles.

[Sibster]

And if you are, they are deporting you anyway if you are member of MS-13 which can be determined by if you have a tatoo. Try again.

Don't join a gang.   Gangs are trouble.   

[Spider-Dan]

It's pretty amazing that the "Guns are needed to combat government tyranny" folks are the same people as the "If the government accuses you of being a gang member then you don't deserve a trial" folks.

[Sibster]

It's pretty amazing that the "Guns are needed to combat government tyranny" folks are the same people as the "If the government accuses you of being a gang member then you don't deserve a trial" folks.

Big difference between being "accused" and being "validated".  If you've got gang tattoos or there's pictures of you constantly hanging out with known gang members, you're validated.   Guess what a validated gang member gets if he commits a crime??   You guessed it, a harsher prison sentence.

[Spider-Dan]

In the American justice system, the method we use for "validation" is called a "trial." Everything else is just allegations.

If you think of the whole "innocent until proven guilty" idea that y'all apply to the people caught on tape smashing windows and breaking into the Capitol, just imagine expanding that right to people you don't like.  That's pretty much it.

[Pappy13]

Don't join a gang.   Gangs are trouble.  

Don't be a junior in High School, honor student or play for the volleyball team or be in the band either apparently. Under no circumstances should you be a bus boy in an Italian restaurant either. ICE looks silly and anyone who supports this activity does too. I'm embarrassed to be an American these days.

This is bananas

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If you're legal, you should be carrying your green card and another government issued photo ID at all times.  End of story.

I don't carry proof of citizenship with me.  This country does not have a national ID requirement, I carry ID when I am driving or if I plan on drinking, but not 24/7.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't carry proof of citizenship with me.  This country does not have a national ID requirement, I carry ID when I am driving or if I plan on drinking, but not 24/7.

You don't have to carry an ID on you at all times if you are obviously an American citizen (if you know what I mean, and I think you do).

Oh, I missed this gem:

Guess what a validated gang member gets if he commits a crime??   You guessed it, a harsher prison sentence.

And how do we tell if a "validated" gang member committed a crime?  Well, the government "validates" that too!

[Sibster]

Oh, I missed this gem:
And how do we tell if a "validated" gang member committed a crime?  Well, the government "validates" that too!

Go look up the term validated gang member.   It's perfectly legal and used in quite a few law enforcement organizations.   The average Joe Schmoe would get a lighter sentence than a validated gang member for the same crime.   

[CF DolFan]

. I'm embarrassed to be an American these days.

This always makes me laugh. People are literally dying to get here but you are so entitled you pretend we are bad. One of my latest "hobby's" has been following Europeans that move here on Social Media. They are constantly pointing out how much better it is here and fallacies to the stereotypes they had grown up hearing. Unfortunately many of us don't appreciate what we have because we've always had it.

[Spider-Dan]

Go look up the term validated gang member.   It's perfectly legal and used in quite a few law enforcement organizations.   The average Joe Schmoe would get a lighter sentence than a validated gang member for the same crime.

Again, you are supposed to get a "sentence" after a trial, where the prosecution has the burden of convincing a jury that 1) you are a gang member and 2) you committed this crime.

But if the government - the same government you claim you need guns to potentially overthrow - simply declares that you are a Gang Member, suddenly all that goes out the window and it's directly to prison!