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Author Topic: Is there an explanation for this miracle  (Read 9774 times)
CF DolFan
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« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2025, 12:13:20 pm »

You can't have one what without the other?  Be specific.
The point you have been making this whole time was specifically that just because God knows what your choice will be, that doesn't mean you weren't the one that made it freely.  So how is it "removing choice" to simply not create all the people who will make choices that get them sent to hell?

There are an infinite number of souls that have not been created, and at least some of them would make choices that get them to heaven.  God regularly decides which souls to create and which souls not to create, and God knows exactly which of those souls will choose hell and which will choose heaven.  Yet instead of choosing to create only the souls that will make it to heaven, he chooses a mix.  Why?

You can't use logic to defend that kind of obvious immorality.  "We can't question God's plan" is your only real answer.
If you do not have the choice to not love God then everyone would be robots. Sin, or in this case choosing the forbidden fruit would not have been a choice if it wasn't there. We all fight against flesh and spirit. The flesh wants to do its own thing while the spirit is always needing God to fill the void. It's our choice which one we make. The fact He already knows what we will choose is not forcing us one way or the other.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2025, 01:49:22 pm »

If you do not have the choice to not love God then everyone would be robots.

That's kind of what I believe.  We are essentially organic computers that cannot break beyond our programming.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2025, 07:58:15 pm »

If you do not have the choice to not love God then everyone would be robots. Sin, or in this case choosing the forbidden fruit would not have been a choice if it wasn't there.
You are arguing that evil must exist in order to be able to "choose" good.  This is not the position of a perfectly good creator.

Furthermore, there are all sorts of choices (literally: an infinite number) that we "don't get to make" because God never creates them for us.  For example, we can't fly (or otherwise travel) to Heaven while alive, so we don't have the choice of whether or not to try to attack heaven.  That's a good-vs-evil choice that we are simply not allowed to make.  Does that make us all robots?
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2025, 11:18:46 am »

Does that make us all robots?

I mean....kinda?Huh  We are organic computers.  Even taking God out of the equation, we have algorithms that run our decision-making.  We give output based on a bunch of input, all of which is out of our control.  So, it's not all that different.
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