The Epstein List

[Spider-Dan]

Well said, Dave.

[CF DolFan]

I want to address this, because I hear it and it's a fundamental misunderstand of how government worked up until Trump took over and weaponized departments.

The DOJ is a separate government entity that is appointed by the president and approved by congress, but not run by the president.  It would be inappropriate for Joe Biden to be involved in whether to release information on a criminal case to the public, especially one in which he has a political opponent on the other side.  There has been a wall there, historically.  Obviously, Trump tore that wall down and put cronies in that position to carry out his political will.  Now, he's stepping on a rake that he himself laid down, because he specifically weaponized the department and now his followers are out for blood...and now it's his blood.

"The Democrats" don't just release information because that's not how any of this works.  The DOJ isn't a political arm of the Democratic party, just because there's a Democrat in the White House.  This is how Trump is breaking everything and creating an authoritarian governmnet.  That's why all of this is so bad.

The Democrats created a fake dossier and stories about Trump's connections to Russia. Not every single Democrat but enough of the leaders that qualifies as a Democrat hit on Trump. I'm not anyone buys into the fact the President, of any administration, isn't involved with what the FBI and CIA are doing.

With that said I fully agree if Trump is in there let his ass get busted. It looks like there is some embarrassing stuff about him in there but I don't know if it ties him to anything illegal but if it does I would light the fire to burn him. Pretty much my highest respect for politicians goes to DeSantis, Rubio, and Rand Paul but if anyone of them are in there I say let them burn too.

[Spider-Dan]

Setting aside your claims about whether this document was "fake": the Steele dossier that you are referring to is a political opposition research paper prepared by a private investigator for the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton, who was not a government employee at the time.

This is not even remotely in the same league as a sitting president directing the Department of Justice (or any of its subsidiaries) to release information to hurt their political opposition.  Trump's open, repeated bragging/threats to use the executive branch to settle personal scores is far outside the norm of any previous administration, Democratic or Republican.

But you probably already know this.  This is the same song and dance that conservatives have been doing for a decade, where you are chanting "LOCK HER UP" one day and screaming "It's outrageous to prosecute your political opponents for alleged crimes" the next.

[CF DolFan]

That's a huge stretch to say Hillary wasn't a government employee at the time. It's semantics at best. Trump is an arsehole and the democrats weaponized against Trump. Neither one is a good look.

My honest opinion is they are all crooks and get away with whatever they can. The powers that be who control everything at the top keep both sides in check but never allow either side to actually enforce anything. If one side falls they all fall. The Epstein files are the latest example.

[Spider-Dan]

It's not a "huge stretch," it's literally fact.
Or do you think Mike Pence is a government employee right now?

No one is denying that "the Democrats" weaponized against Trump, exactly as they did against Mitt Romney, John McCain, George W. Bush, and Bob Dole.  Everyone weaponizes against their election opponents.  But again, that is not the same thing as abusing the powers of your office to leak damaging information about your election opponent.  And given that Hillary Clinton had no office, and the Steele dossier you are complaining about originated from a private investigator, not the DOJ, your accusations about "both sides do it" are baseless.

My honest opinion is they are all crooks and get away with whatever they can.

This is always the excuse for every outrageous new example of Trump's corruption.
"they're all crooks, hey look over there"

[CF DolFan]

This is always the excuse for every outrageous new example of Trump's corruption.
"they're all crooks, hey look over there"

Lol ..not at all. I've never thought Trump is squeaky clean and if it's shown he was using girls provided through Epstein I hope they fry his arse. Same with any other person with an R next them. I'm for all of them being outed but I know that will never happen because behind the scenes, they always cover for each other.  Politics in this day and age is nothing more than professional wrestling. What we see in front of the cameras and what's actually going on are very much two different things. We used to have media to protect us but they have all been bought out.

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the "we didn't vote for an angel-in-chief" excuse.

I'm just puzzled why, 8 years later, conservatives have suddenly started caring about sexual abuse from the "Grab them by the pussy" guy.
You knew who he was when you voted for him (three times).

Please don't tell me that this is a "I can accept raping adult women, but I draw the line at sex trafficking of underage girls" situation.

[CF DolFan]

Well I do realize we live in the fake "me too" judgment era but back in the day, and probably still now, there were plenty of women who hung around guys with money and didn't see anything wrong with being sexualized. He wasn't talking about women walking down the street.

You can try and impose your view of today's judgement zone but I'm guessing you would have fainted had you known how people like Frank Sinatra and others treated the women who flocked to them. Heck, the beloved Sean Connery talked about slapping women to put them in place.

In fact, when I went to school in the 70s and 80s we would grab girls' butts and stuff and never got into trouble. If a girl or woman was offended they would slap you, possibly call you a creep, and then move on. If you were attractive you typically got a way with it. What this means is most of your fathers most likely assaulted women at some time as well.

[Dave Gray]

^ I agree.

You will have a bad time trying to hold previous figures to the standards of today, on race, sex, gender, -- even slang words, etc.

[Phishfan]

Trump said it in 2005. Let's not confuse it with the Rat Pack or even our youth. I remember it when it was different but it was way before his quote.

[Dave Gray]

Trump said it in 2005. Let's not confuse it with the Rat Pack or even our youth. I remember it when it was different but it was way before his quote.

Yeah, also, character is character.  This is not some new information.  Trump is fundamentally a bad person, political policy aside.  He's not a kind person.  He's not a truthful person.  He's not giving and benevolent, trying to make the world better for those around him.  Everyone knows this.  It's just that some of the country thought that they could benefit from his selfishness because it would be good for America, too.

I'm not struggling with Trump being a shitheel like some on the right seem to.  He doesn't, and never did, care about the wellbeing of anyone else.  This is apparent by his entire business career, his political career, his various lawsuits, and what he says on a day to day basis.  He's a scumbag and we all know it.

[CF DolFan]

Trump said it in 2005. Let's not confuse it with the Rat Pack or even our youth. I remember it when it was different but it was way before his quote.

I disagree. Do you know why women like Sofia Vergara, Mel B, Heidi Klum etc are judges on America's got Talent? Because when they tried to use younger women like Julianna Hough and Gabrielle Union they went to HR about everything. They claimed toxic work environment, racism, sexism etc. Women in Generation X give it as well as they get it and don't create the drama but younger women seem to look for reasons to play the victim making themselves a liability.

Aside from that every rock musical group had videos that included exploiting women as well did the 80/90s teen movies. Generation X was raised different.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Well I do realize we live in the fake "me too" judgment era

No we don't.  We live in an era where the rare case of a false accusations is used to discredit any woman who comes forward. 

Have there been false accusations?  Yes, but they are rare. 

If the same woman accuses multiple men and none of the men have other accusers than it is possible she is lying.

But if a dozen woman are all accusing the same man, he is definitely guilty.  Could one or two of those women be lying and he only raped 10 women instead of 12, that is possible, but he is definitely a rapist.

In the case of Trump we don't even need to exam his accusers.  He has on multiple instances of admitted (bragged) about being a sexual predator. 

[Phishfan]

I disagree. Do you know why women like Sofia Vergara, Mel B, Heidi Klum etc are judges on America's got Talent? Because when they tried to use younger women like Julianna Hough and Gabrielle Union they went to HR about everything. They claimed toxic work environment, racism, sexism etc. Women in Generation X give it as well as they get it and don't create the drama but younger women seem to look for reasons to play the victim making themselves a liability.

Aside from that every rock musical group had videos that included exploiting women as well did the 80/90s teen movies. Generation X was raised different.

All of this well before 2005 exactly as I said.  Trump didn't give that quote in the good Ole 80s. That's my point.

[Spider-Dan]

Well I do realize we live in the fake "me too" judgment era but back in the day, and probably still now, there were plenty of women who hung around guys with money and didn't see anything wrong with being sexualized. He wasn't talking about women walking down the street.

You can try and impose your view of today's judgement zone but I'm guessing you would have fainted had you known how people like Frank Sinatra and others treated the women who flocked to them. Heck, the beloved Sean Connery talked about slapping women to put them in place.

I have a copy of my great-grandmother's marriage license.  She got married in New Orleans in 1924 at the age of 16.  And this wasn't uncommon; teen girls have been getting married off to adult men for centuries.  So why is everyone getting so worked up about Jeffrey Epstein arranging sex with underage girls when historically it was quite common?  I mean, since you're happy to make excuses for sexual assault "based on historical norms," why not also make excuses for having sex with underage girls while you're at it?

Furthermore, to put this in the proper historical context:
Frank Sinatra has been dead for a quarter-century.
You voted for Donald Trump as president 9 months ago.

This entire line of rape apologia is disgusting.  The multiple women that Trump sexually assaulted absolutely did see something wrong with what he did.  And it's absurd for you to play this "fake me too" card when Trump is on tape BRAGGING about sexually assaulting women!