Russia and Ukraine

[Dave Gray]

I have been frustrated by this.  I went back and gravedug our old thread, back when Biden was President and we were pretty much talking about Trump anyway, because he was the lone voice giving credence to Russia's actions.  We got shit on for making this about Trump, back then.

Looks like we were justified.  I just don't understand how we seem to be siding with Russia in trying to end this war.

I understand (but do not agree) with isolationism and that we shouldn't be involved financially or militarily.  I think that's dumb and short-sided, but at least it's an ethos.  But in terms of validating Russia's hostile takeover of a democratic ally...I just can't even.

What the fuck are we doing?  How can anyone look at a despot invading other countries and then try to negotiate a peace deal by giving them land?  It's so against the very fabric of what I understand America's place in the world to be.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The after bigly uber successful businessman Trump declared six beautiful perfect bankruptcies, many US lenders started being reluctant to lend him money and he started borrowing money from the Russians.  The fact that he owes the Russians might have something to do with it. 

[Sunstroke]

Donnie can just give them back Alaska and call it even...

...I am only about 38% joking there.

[CF DolFan]

Not that anyone hasn't realized it but it's a difficult situation. If Putin doesn't get something to save face he will keep fighting. That means either we all go to war alongside Ukraine ... likely causing a World War or we find a compromise to stop it. There doesn't appear to be an in between answer.

[Fau Teixeira]

The lesson the world learned from the Russia Ukraine war is that you don't ever give up your nuclear weapons. Ukraine did with guarantees from the US that they'd be safe. Now no-one will buy that ever again. Countries that were iffy on having nuclear weapons, will develop them. Look to Saudi Arabia and Brazil to join the club.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Not that anyone hasn't realized it but it's a difficult situation. If Putin doesn't get something to save face he will keep fighting. That means either we all go to war alongside Ukraine ... likely causing a World War or we find a compromise to stop it. There doesn't appear to be an in between answer.

You're assuming he cares to save face. Putin is a ruthless Dictator in his own Country, and he doesn't have to.

This whole exercise isn't about saving face, it's about using Trump to give him some sense of legitimacy internationally and buy time while he continues his agenda. It's about further delaying any economic consequences of his (current) war.

There's a warrant for his arrest from the ICC for the atrocities he's done - and the USA is one of the nations signed up to enforce that. Trump choosing to ignore this and allowing this meeting to happen on US soil is a huge rebuff. As is the mere thought of the USA and Russia carving up Ukraine in a "peace deal", basically awarding over 20% of the country to the aggressor with zero input from Ukraine. Plus no real guarantee that Putin won't push further in future.

[CF DolFan]

You're assuming he cares to save face. Putin is a ruthless Dictator in his own Country, and he doesn't have to.

This whole exercise isn't about saving face, it's about using Trump to give him some sense of legitimacy internationally and buy time while he continues his agenda. It's about further delaying any economic consequences of his (current) war.

There's a warrant for his arrest from the ICC for the atrocities he's done - and the USA is one of the nations signed up to enforce that. Trump choosing to ignore this and allowing this meeting to happen on US soil is a huge rebuff. As is the mere thought of the USA and Russia carving up Ukraine in a "peace deal", basically awarding over 20% of the country to the aggressor with zero input from Ukraine. Plus no real guarantee that Putin won't push further in future.

Not in his country but around the world. He would look weak to China, North Korea, and most likely much of the world if he gave back everything for nothing. Hard to say though because he does seem crazy at times.

[Downunder Dolphan]

He would look weak to China, North Korea, and most likely much of the world if he gave back everything for nothing.

He's already signed a mutual defense pact (NATO-like) with China and North Korea. That doesn't matter, and they don't care.

It's all about buying back just a hint of some kind of legitimacy with Western nations he's lost trust with since the invasion of Ukraine... and Trump is a massive tool in doing this.

I do mean massive tool, as in every sense of the phrase.