A Study in Team Culture

[Dolfanalyst]

Despite that we're nearing 60 posts with multiple participants in this thread folks, the most direct and substantive rebuttal to what I've said here -- the very simple and easily elucidated point that McDaniel simply isn't a clown -- has yet to occur.  That speaks volumes.

[Phishfan]

I'd say "explain it again, this time with those nuggies" is pretty clownish.

[Dolfanalyst]

I'd say "explain it again, this time with those nuggies" is pretty clownish.

Sure it is.  However, do you believe Andy Reid is a clown in general?

Like if you were asked to describe Andy Reid's overall personality, you'd say "he's a clown"?

[Spider-Dan]

The only person who thinks McDaniel is a "clown" and refers to him as "Pee Wee Herman" is you.  The video you keep citing as damning evidence of the team's unseriousness has absolutely nothing unusual from McDaniel himself, yet you fault him for his players being too silly after an exciting win.  But when Mike Vrabel's players are even more clownish in public (not even in the locker room), you cast no such blame on the head coach.

We've also provided multiple examples of clownishness from other teams and you simply dismiss it because those teams didn't have bad records.

[Dolfanalyst]

The only person who thinks McDaniel is a "clown" and refers to him as "Pee Wee Herman" is you.  The video you keep citing as damning evidence of the team's unseriousness has absolutely nothing unusual from McDaniel himself, yet you fault him for his players being too silly after an exciting win.  But when Mike Vrabel's players are even more clownish in public (not even in the locker room), you cast no such blame on the head coach.

We've also provided multiple examples of clownishness from other teams and you simply dismiss it because those teams didn't have bad records.

It's impossible to converse productively with you because you routinely mischaracterize what I've said.  The post quoted above is riddled with such mischaracterizations.

When you're interested in accurately understanding what I say, let me know.  Until then, have a nice day.

[CF DolFan]

Despite that we're nearing 60 posts with multiple participants in this thread folks, the most direct and substantive rebuttal to what I've said here -- the very simple and easily elucidated point that McDaniel simply isn't a clown -- has yet to occur.  That speaks volumes.

In all fairness ... I've called Pete Carroll a clown for many years. It's a subjective word so there is no way to prove it correct or incorrect.

[Dolfanalyst]

In all fairness ... I've called Pete Carroll a clown for many years. It's a subjective word so there is no way to prove it correct or incorrect.

The point is that nobody here, despite responding to the topic in general, is railing against the description of McDaniel as a clown.  If you described Don Shula as a clown, the immediate response by just about anyone willing to participate would be railing against it.

[Spider-Dan]

Again, multiple people have given you examples of coaches that behave even more clownishly than McDaniel, and your only response is to dismiss it because of their record, or say "But would you call him a clown?", when the only person characterizing McDaniel as "a clown" is YOU.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

In all fairness ... I've called Pete Carroll a clown for many years. It's a subjective word so there is no way to prove it correct or incorrect.

His entire time in New England he was referred to as a deer in headlights. 

[Dolfanalyst]

Again, multiple people have given you examples of coaches that behave even more clownishly than McDaniel, and your only response is to dismiss it because of their record, or say "But would you call him a clown?", when the only person characterizing McDaniel as "a clown" is YOU.

No I don't dismiss it "because of their record."  Again another mischaracterization by you.  I dismiss it because in my opinion those coaches are exhibiting the situational variation in their behavior that everyone experiences, while not being clowns overall, or in general, like McDaniel.

If you dug around and found a single instance of Vince Lombardi for example behaving in a clownish manner, you certainly wouldn't conclude that he was a clown in general or that his teams experienced him as one -- it would simply be a one-off example of situationally-driven behavior on his part that had no relation whatsoever with the manner in which he coached his teams.

Likewise when Andy Reid films a TV commercial and the script calls for him to say something clownish in it, we certainly can't conclude that he's a clown in general or that his team experiences him as one.  That's quite a stretch and that perspective should be dismissed.  And it's not "because of his record" -- it's because it's faulty logic.

Once again, I'm not saying anything here that isn't also being said here:

https://x.com/FinsXtra/status/1979955001868042597?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1979955001868042597%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

Whatever Bruschi is referring to about McDaniel there -- call it "being a clown" or call it whatever you want using your own vernacular -- is certainly highly noteworthy, is distinctive from other NFL head coaches, and is fundamentally incompatible with being the head coach of an NFL football team in my opinion.

[Dolfanalyst]

This from yesterday I have no problem with:

https://www.tiktok.com/@miamidolphins/video/7581325320234470687

McDaniel will never be the picture of masculinity/aggression that coaches like Cowher, Campbell, and Shula, etc. are, but as long as he's not all the way at the other end of the spectrum at "clown" the team can get leadership from him that isn't completely inconsistent with the nature of football, and in turn have a culture in the locker room and on the field that follows from it.

[CF DolFan]

His entire time in New England he was referred to as a deer in headlights. 

Apparently he loved his time there since he gifted you guys a Super Bowl. hahhaa I lost ever having respect for the man because of him yelling at Pete Stoyanovich with the choke sign after he missed an extra point that would have tied them. Pete got the last laugh as he kicked the game winning FG a few minutes later. Hahaa

[Spider-Dan]

Can you imagine how the media would cover Mike McDaniel allowing a giant inflatable rabbit to be installed in the locker room?  Or what certain individuals here would have to say about such a development?

But this can't be "clownish" because the Eagles won the Super Bowl last season, you see.

[Dolfanalyst]

Can you imagine how the media would cover Mike McDaniel allowing a giant inflatable rabbit to be installed in the locker room?  Or what certain individuals here would have to say about such a development?

But this can't be "clownish" because the Eagles won the Super Bowl last season, you see.

Once again, a complete mischaracterization of what's been said here.

Just because you speak up and say something doesn't mean you're accurately characterizing what someone else has said.  You're apparently quite comfortable essentially talking to yourself with your own thoughts and projections and straw man arguments.

[Sibster]

It's really simple.  It's ok to clown around when you're a winning team.  Not when you're a losing one.   Clowning around is fun and should be earned by wins on the football field.   I know plenty of instances where coaches have seen guys clowning around after losses and either punished them severely or booted them from the team on the spot.

Paul "Bear" Bryant- That's what happens when you get married!!  All your football is running straight out of the end of your dick!!

Amos Alonzo Stagg- Since your head isn't in the game, let's put your body in it and hope your head catches up.  Give me three stadiums... NOW!!!

Bob Knight- If losing means so little to you, maybe you're not fit to play on this team!!! (He said that to Coach K)