A Study in Team Culture

[Dolfanalyst]

Other teams with better records have responded with even less seriousness and humility than Miami and you have no criticism to offer them.

And that's because we have no idea how those teams would respond to winning a single game that made them 3-7.  We know how the Dolphins responded to that, however.

For all we know those teams would respond to a win that made them 3-7 with exactly the seriousness and humility I'm emphasizing here.  How can I "have criticism to offer them" when I (and all of us) have no idea how they would respond under those circumstances?

[Spider-Dan]

It's shocking that you can so badly miss the point your own thread is ostensibly making.

You cited the 2005 Steelers, not because they were a losing team that was serious, but instead because they were a championship team that was serious.  The point you explicitly made is that a clownish culture is not consistent with winning:

The problem is that the 2025 Miami Dolphins' "personality" isn't consistent with winning at a high level in the NFL, where seriousness, drive, determination, and aggression are what wins on the field in the rough and tumble game of football.  The game is inherently physical and aggressive, and being embedded in a clown-like culture makes winning less likely when you're facing teams with serious and aggressive cultures -- features inherent to the game.

Yet when it is pointed out that the 2025 New England Patriots have an even more clownish personality - a direct refutation of your premise that "a serious personality" has an impactful correlation with winning - your response is... we don't know if they would be as silly if they were a losing team.  But that's irrelevant!  Your premise is that winning teams have a serious personality, and the 2025 Patriots - as well as the current reigning NFL champion Philadelphia Eagles, who installed a giant inflatable bunny in their locker room "for the vibes" - refute your premise.

After multiple contradictory examples have been cited - and, uhh, after the Dolphins have reeled off three more straight wins - NOW you're trying to spin this thread exclusively into a commentary on the personality traits of teams that are 3-7.  But if that were true, you never would have cited the 2005 Steelers in the first place!

[Dolfanalyst]

Yet when it is pointed out that the 2025 New England Patriots have an even more clownish personality - a direct refutation of your premise that "a serious personality" has an impactful correlation with winning - your response is... we don't know if they would be as silly if they were a losing team.  But that's irrelevant!

I don't agree that we've established the 2025 Patriots as having anywhere near the clownish culture of the Dolphins, as was exhibited in celebrating the win that made them 3-7.

Your premise is that winning teams have a serious personality, and the 2025 Patriots - as well as the current reigning NFL champion Philadelphia Eagles, who installed a giant inflatable bunny in their locker room "for the vibes" - refute your premise.

Likewise I don't agree that the rabbit establishes the 2025 Eagles as having anywhere near the clownish culture exhbited by the Dolphins in the original post.

Likewise I don't agree that Andy Reid's behavior in a scripted TV commercial establishes him as having the clownish personality in general Mike McDaniel does.

Can you see a pattern here?

[Spider-Dan]

I don't agree that we've established the 2025 Patriots as having anywhere near the clownish culture of the Dolphins, as was exhibited in celebrating the win that made them 3-7.

You can't make your argument without leaning on the Dolphins' record; their losing record is what MAKES the Dolphins' activity "clownish" (but not the Patriots').
So once again:

Your defense for criticizing Team A but not Team B when they both act silly is that... Team B has a better record!

[Dolfanalyst]

You can't make your argument without leaning on the Dolphins' record; their losing record is what MAKES the Dolphins' activity "clownish" (but not the Patriots').
So once again:

Do we need to rewind all the way back to the point in the thread where I pointed out that any team is fully capable of responding to a win that makes it 3-7 entirely differently than the Dolphins did?

Of course their record is a part of what made their behavior clownish.  Are we instead supposed to divorce the appraisal of all behavior from the context in which it occurs and ascribe meaning to it in a vacuum?

If you were at a funeral at a church for example and there were hundreds of people sitting around you in tears weeping and you were standing up cheering, should we consider that behavior just as appropriate and fitting as it would be if you were standing up cheering at a football game when your team scores?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Do we need to rewind all the way back to the point in the thread where I pointed out that any team is fully capable of responding to a win that makes it 3-7 entirely differently than the Dolphins did?

Of course their record is a part of what made their behavior clownish.  Are we instead supposed to divorce the appraisal of all behavior from the context in which it occurs and ascribe meaning to it in a vacuum?

If you were at a funeral at a church for example and there were hundreds of people sitting around you in tears weeping and you were standing up cheering, should we consider that behavior just as appropriate and fitting as it would be if you were standing up cheering at a football game when your team scores?

I am pretty sure the mood in each of the locker rooms matched that of the mood of the fans in attendance, so your funeral analogy makes no sense. 

A better analogy to what the Dolphins did post that game would be Patriots fans cheering and going wild after White caught a TD in Superbowl LI with the Patriots now losing 28-9 in the third quarter a still almost insurmountable deficit. 

After the game one celebrates the game not the record.

Hypothetically: it is week 18 and in order for the Patriots to get the number one seed the Patriot either need to win OR Broncos lose.  In order for the Dolphin to get the 7 seed the Dolphins need to win plus 4 other games need to go their way including the Chargers losing.  The Dolphins win but so do the Chargers and a few of the other games don't go the Dolphin's way.  In that case I would expect the Dolphin's locker room to be considerably more celebratory the Patriots.  Despite the fact that Patriots secured the #1 seed and the Dolphins missed the playoffs. 

[Dolfanalyst]

After the game one celebrates the game not the record.

OK so again, here were the Steelers in 2006:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpOG9K02F_g

How does that fit with your position that "one celebrates the game, not the record [or some other bigger picture variable]"?

Again the Steelers had just won a playoff road game as a wildcard underdog, eventually winning the Super Bowl.  If they had celebrated only the game, wouldn't they have appeared far different?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

OK so again, here were the Steelers in 2006:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpOG9K02F_g

How does that fit with your position that "one celebrates the game, not the record [or some other bigger picture variable]"?

Again the Steelers had just won a playoff road game as a wildcard underdog, eventually winning the Super Bowl.  If they had celebrated only the game, wouldn't they have appeared far different?

Did you bother reading everything above and below that line?  Because that was the meat of my post. 

I am not going to critique the Steelers because I don't think there was anything wrong with what they did.  The impetus is on you to explain why the Dolphin's celebration negatively affected future games. 

[Dolfanalyst]

I am pretty sure the mood in each of the locker rooms matched that of the mood of the fans in attendance, so your funeral analogy makes no sense.

Also, the relevant context here isn't what "the fans in attendance" are feeling or doing -- it's being a 3-7 team going nowhere.  That's the context.  You celebrate a win with seriousness and humility in that context, until you get your season turned around, regardless of what your fans are feeling or doing.

The funeral example was provided only to illustrate how the meaning of behavior is determined in part by its context.  We don't ascribe meaning to behavior in a vacuum.

[Dolfanalyst]

I am not going to critique the Steelers because I don't think there was anything wrong with what they did.

Precisely -- and in fact there was a whole lot right with what they did.  Despite winning a road playoff game as a wildcard underdog -- a cause for a massive celebration with whatever buffoonery they could have mustered -- their response indicated they had their sights set on a bigger-picture goal:  winning the Super Bowl.

Likewise the Dolphins in the original post could've shown the seriousness and humility that indicated they had their sights set on a bigger-picture goal just as relevant to them:  turning their season around.

The impetus is on you to explain why the Dolphin's celebration negatively affected future games.

We'll see what happens.  Stay tuned.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Also, the relevant context here isn't what "the fans in attendance" are feeling or doing -- it's being a 3-7 team going nowhere.  That's the context.  You celebrate a win with seriousness and humility in that context, until you get your season turned around, regardless of what your fans are feeling or doing.

The funeral example was provided only to illustrate how the meaning of behavior is determined in part by its context.  We don't ascribe meaning to behavior in a vacuum.

The CONTEXT of this win is a team that just beat the division leader in a game that nobody thought they would win.  You have obviously never played sports at any level, because winning upsets typically creates greater celebration than winning games where you  are the heavy favorite.  

[Dolfanalyst]

The CONTEXT of this win is a team that just beat the division leader in a game that nobody thought they would win.  You have obviously never played sports at any level, because winning upsets typically creates greater celebration than winning games where you  are the heavy favorite.  

Once again, here are the Steelers in 2006, as an underdog wildcard team after an upset in a road game in the playoffs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpOG9K02F_g

Any of them play sports at any level?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

We'll see what happens.  Stay tuned.

We know what happened next they won the next three games.  They have now switched to more muted celebrations that you approve of, so if they lose their next games it won''t be because they celebrated too hard after the Bills game.  It won't be that they weren't wild enough after the Jets game, either.  It is really a complete non issue.    

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Once again, here are the Steelers in 2006, as an underdog wildcard team after an upset in a road game in the playoffs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpOG9K02F_g

Any of them play sports at any level?

Both teams had the same record.  And even though the game was in Cinci the Steelers were favored by 3.  This was not an upset.  Please get your fact straight before applying analysis. 

And once again just because the Steelers acted different doesn't mean one is wrong and the other is right.  So quit posting the steelers clip and start explaining how intensely celebrating a win prevents you from winning future games.

[Dolfanalyst]

Both teams had the same record.  And even though the game was in Cinci the Steelers were favored by 3.  This was not an upset.  Please get your fact straight before applying analysis.

Wrong.  The game was at Indianapolis and the 14-2 Colts led by Peyton Manning were favored by 8.5 points, which is a high number in a playoff game in the NFL.