rethinking don shula

[bsfins]

To me this whole thread falls along the lines of hindsight is 20/20,like a 20 year old bitching about the Beatles,or Rolling Stones Suck...yet aren't old enough to judge/appreciate what they did. JMO..

[runtheball]

The part about a guy jacking off in a team meeting has to be a joke.  How could someone get away with doing that, or even want to try in a room full of other football players. 

Did that really happen ?

[The_Phinatic]

The part about a guy jacking off in a team meeting has to be a joke.

I don't know but that's not the first time I've seen Tommy use that term.  If he goes blind we will know why 

[YoFuggedaboutit]

The part about a guy jacking off in a team meeting has to be a joke.  How could someone get away with doing that, or even want to try in a room full of other football players. 

Did that really happen ?

No joke.  I read about it in the book Shark Among Dolphins which was written by a former Dolphins beat writer from the Sun Sentinel and describes Jimmy Johnson's first season with the team.  Being an ex- newspaper reporter, the guy knows about reporting stuff that's true and accurate. 

[ADeadSmitty]

You can't just say Shula "had" Marino and failed to get a running game together. Marino didn't just fall into the Dolphins' lap, Shula drafted him. So whatever blame Shula takes for the lack of running game, he has to take at least much credit for drafting Marino. You can't just take as an arbitrary starting point that he somehow magically "had" Marino but then when it came to his responsibility to get a running game and defense together, he screwed up.

My point is, Shula is responsible for the whole team, which throughout Marino's career, on average, was very good. And the team was championship-caliber in the early 70s. The only real lull in Shula's long tenure was in the late 70s. It didn't last very long.

Look, the guy averaged 10+ wins a season over a 30+ season career. That is simply astonishing, especially when you consider that many of those seasons were only 14 games long. Simply unbelievable. I think the key to his longevity, and what made him a great coach, is that he adapted his style to his players. In the early 70s, when he had a power running game, he fed Csonka over and over, and that made the team successful. In the 80s, when the Dolphins drafted Marino, Shula was flexible enough to realize that his team was now passing-oriented. He let Marino loose, and the team was successful (even though they didn't win the Super Bowl.)

Contrast this to a coach like Pat Riley. Even though Pat Riley has been amazingly successful as a coach (and is probably even better as a GM), to me he is inferior to Shula because he can only win one way. The only way Riley knows how to win in the NBA is with a team organized around a dominating center. In LA he had Jabbar, in NY he had Ewing, in Miami the first time around he had Mourning, and then he quit because Mourning got sick. When they acquired Shaq (or a year after, to keep up appearances) Riley shoved Van Gundy out the door and took over. Basically Riley only knows one style of basketball. He cannot adapt his game to the players he has. That's why he's not good as Shula, who could (as has already been noted) "take his'n and beat your'n, and then take your'n and beat his'n."

[Thundergod]

Smitty 1,  haters 0... we'll be back after these messages.

[ADeadSmitty]

W00t W00t!!11!

[reticent]

Marino's story is a tragedy,  the greatest QB ever to never win a Super Bowl.

i think we can all agree that marino is the greatest qb to never win the super bowl. but now, if we can't blame marino for not winning the super bowl, who can we blame...?

1. olivadotti
2. sammie smith
3. thurman thomas
4. john bosa
5. yatil green
6. other draft busts
7. bad luck/injuries
8. maybe shula the gm (but *never* shula the head coach)

okay.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

i think we can all agree that marino is the greatest qb to never win the super bowl. but now, if we can't blame marino for not winning the super bowl, who can we blame...?

1. olivadotti
2. sammie smith
3. thurman thomas
4. john bosa
5. yatil green
6. other draft busts
7. bad luck/injuries
8. maybe shula the gm (but *never* shula the head coach)

okay.

Lemme add to this list

9.  Jimmy Johnson the bonehead
10.  Jimmy Johnson the asshole
11. Jimmy Johnson the egocentric maniac

[Dave Gray]

C'mon....JJ came in at the end of Marino's career...way past his prime.  Shula hung around a little too long at the end, when Marino still had the goods.  ...not that it was Shula's fault either.  ....there were roughly 30 teams in the NFL...oddswise, it's only a 50/50 shot that you win the Super Bowl in a 15 year career, anyway.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

C'mon....JJ came in at the end of Marino's career...way past his prime.  Shula hung around a little too long at the end, when Marino still had the goods.  ...not that it was Shula's fault either.  ....there were roughly 30 teams in the NFL...oddswise, it's only a 50/50 shot that you win the Super Bowl in a 15 year career, anyway.

JJ really pissed off a lot of people.  Let's just say what he promised and what he delivered, including bringing in Wanny, really hurt this team.  He's like the schoolyard bully who got shown up. 

[Dave Gray]

Blaming JJ for what Wanny did as a head coach is assinine.  Wanny was a defensive coach...and a good one.  Our defense was built from JJ and Wanny.  After Jimmy left, anything that fell apart wasn't his doing.

Hate on JJ all you want, but letting him take the blame for Marino's lack of Super Bowls or Wanny's ineptitude as a head coach just doesn't make any sense.

[reticent]

shula's last great year as a coach was 1985

that year, the dolphins went 12-4
winning their last seven in a row
and winning the afc east title
that year, they beat the bears on mnf
in one of the best games ever
and made it all the way to the afc championship game

in 1985, marino was also in only his third year as a pro
and opposing teams still couldn't figure out how to stop him

unfortunately, 1985 was also the year of one of shula's worst losses
and it marked the beginning of shula's rapid decline as a coach
in 1985, in the afc championship game
shula's 2nd-seeded and heavily favored dolphins
were beaten badly to the underdog 5th-seeded patriots
the dolphins lost 31-14, at home in the orange bowl
ruining what could have been a super bowl rematch with the bears

after 1985, shula was not exactly legendary....

in his last ten years as a head coach, from 1986-1995
shula went 80-63 (not including 1993, the year marino was hurt)

this averages out to less than 9-7 per season

in his last ten years, his playoff record was 3-4
and all of his playoff victories were in the wild-card round
against secondary teams like the chiefs and chargers

in his last ten years, shula never even won a divisional playoff game
he never made it to the conference title game
never made it to another super bowl

in his last ten years
with one of the best qbs in history in his athletic prime
shula was very very mediocre

he squandered a major talent, probably the best player
the dolphins will ever have
and for this, he has to be held accountable

[reticent]

Deja vu!

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,3186.15.html

Shula pretty much proved his incompetence during the Marino era.  If weren't for his achievements in the early 70's and the early 80's, he'd be a candidate for the ring of dishonor.

Shula may be better than Wanny, but that's about it.

run_to_win, that is a wise statement you made in 2004! i am still reviewing that old thread. apologies for not seeing it before and adding to it instead of starting a new one.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

run_to_win, that is a wise statement you made in 2004! i am still reviewing that old thread. apologies for not seeing it before and adding to it instead of starting a new one.

OMG he has the ability to gravedig.  Security!!!  Please confine Ensign Reticent to the brig!!!