Smoke'em if you got'em...for now

[pintofguinness14]

They were trying to get this passed in Philly. I was all for it. Some politicians said it "would hurt business". Yet there was a report published about how business in New York went UP after they banned smoking.

That situation is noted in the Washington Post article I linked to at the beginning of this thread. Also, a friend of mine's family owns a restaurant and bar in Philly.  We had this conversation last year (as he was chain smoking in a DC bar) and he told me their business did just fine after the ban.  Apparently, there was a little dip in business at first, but it rebounded very quickly.

I don't think there is a strong economic argument against banning smoking in bars and restaurants.  My problem has more to do with the priniciple.   Like Frimp and Smitty, I think proprietors should be able to decide whether smoking is allowed and then let the market decide. 

Also, I don't buy Dave's comparison to public sanitation and hygiene laws.  Those laws exist to protect city residents from highly communicable diseases like typhoid and cholera which killed countless thousands in cities during outbreaks between the 15th and 19th centuries.  While second hand smoke is associated with lung cancer, there is no danger that someone who didn't choose to sit in the smoke will get cancer.  Obviously, there is a public health issue here, however, in this case I do not believe it's strong enough to require government regulation.

[Philly Fin Fan]

Also, a friend of mine's family owns a restaurant and bar in Philly.  We had this conversation last year (as he was chain smoking in a DC bar) and he told me their business did just fine after the ban.  Apparently, there was a little dip in business at first, but it rebounded very quickly.

Your friend must've been really drunk when you guys had this conversation. The law never passed in Philly, so how could it have affected their business in any way?

[bsmooth]

Jesus I can't believe people still cry over this. It has been law in California for almost 10 years, and guess what, no bar has gone out of business. It may have atually saved lives as the pathetic people who never smoke, yet can't keep one out of their mouth when they drink now don't smoke at all. Also it was passed as a worker protection as not all people who work in bars and restaraunts smoke. You will never get all smokers to work in every bar, plus it wouldn't work as smokers rarely follow the rules on he number of cigarette breaks they get. They are addicts, and addicts are always thinking about their next fix. Also you can't claim government interference when the whole cigarette industry is heavily subsidized by the Feds. You can't ave you cake and eat it too.

[Pats2006]

As a reformed smoker I would have to say ban it. Now that I quit I hate the smell. When you are in a room where people are smoking it makes you smell like ass too.

When I was stationed in NC you could smoke almost anywere.

[Brian Fein]

It can't be left up to the business owner, because its not.  It has to be banned or not banned.  There is no in between.

A restaurant that disallows smoking while others allow it stands to lose business from smokers.  However, if all places disallow smoking, there will be no economic loss.  If Ruby Tuesdays says "No smoking" but Friday's, Chili's, and Applebee's all allow smoking, which one is going to get the smokers' business?

The "let the business owner decide" argument is silly, since no business owner will choose to turn customers away due to their own habits.  Its all about the $$$$$$$!

[pintofguinness14]

Your friend must've been really drunk when you guys had this conversation. The law never passed in Philly, so how could it have affected their business in any way?

It coudl be that I was the one who had too much to drink 

At any rate, the point is he wasn't concerned about the ban. 

[Phishfan]

Like it or not, tobacco is legal. I'm allergic to most perfumes. They make me sneeze like crazy, and I can break out in a rash if it touches me. Perfume is legal, yet harmful to me. Should we ban perfume for me and others like me?

You are actually comparing an allergy with cancer? Let's see Benadryl costs a couple dollars while cancer treatment is impossible to afford without insurance. Good analogy.

[Phishfan]

I
You say it's no problem for people to step outside to smoke. Not in Florida, maybe. But it is up north in the winter, when being outside in the cold is itself a health hazard.

Comparing standing outside for 15 minutes to cancer. Another great analogy.

[Frimp]

Ok, forget about my allergy. Some people are allergic to peanuts. It can kill them if they come into contact with it. Lets ban peanuts!

[Denver_Bronco]

Ok, forget about my allergy. Some people are allergic to peanuts. It can kill them if they come into contact with it. Lets ban peanuts!

keep up the good work Frimp. They are still trying to rationalize the difference....LOL

[Brian Fein]

Ok, forget about my allergy. Some people are allergic to peanuts. It can kill them if they come into contact with it. Lets ban peanuts!

Not quite - since someone who's allergic to peanuts has the ability to stay away from them.

If there were people going around praying peanut dust in the air all over the place, I'd say yes - ban that crap!  Its not like I have the choice to stay away from your smoke in a bar, do I?

(before you say "don't go to that bar", let me know which bar I CAN go to that doesn't have smoke?)

[crazy_scar_man]

Stop your whining... Jesus... alot of you are pussies.

[Brian Fein]

Not really, its just about the debate.

You're really good at killing the discussion, though...

[Frimp]

Not quite - since someone who's allergic to peanuts has the ability to stay away from them.

If there were people going around praying peanut dust in the air all over the place, I'd say yes - ban that crap!  Its not like I have the choice to stay away from your smoke in a bar, do I?

(before you say "don't go to that bar", let me know which bar I CAN go to that doesn't have smoke?)

You are thinking about your health when you go to a bar?

Also, your arguement about smoke free resturants losing business is invalid. As I said earlier, there are plenty of smoke free resturants in SC that do very well.

[Brian Fein]

No, I'm thinking I don't want to smell like an ash tray when I walk out.  Smoke also plays hell on my eyes with my contact lenses and I can't stand in a smoke-filled room for more than 30 minutes without serious attention to them.