Tonight's mythbuster

[Brian Fein]

I don't buy it.  Let's go back to the cannon then.  Fire a bowling ball and a soccer ball out of a cannon, straight up.  

Here's the difference - the velocity is lower on the bowling ball, therefore the drag force is less.  However, lower initial velocity, I gotta think would have more impact on the flight of the projectile, than lower drag.

[Brian Fein]

Force doesn't change.  deceleration changes - apply it to F=ma.  If m is bigger, a is smaller.

I've always stated that air restistance is the same for the same size balls.

Yes, agreed.  But, now I'm thinking the drag force is not the same for both, based on what I just posted about different velocities.

[BeefStewert]

Yes, agreed.  But, now I'm thinking the drag force is not the same for both, based on what I just posted about different velocities.

So you are saying the lighter object will have even MORE drag force.  So that supports my arguement.  Don't forget that the result of the test was that the He ball flew less distance.  You might want to try to figure out why this is more than try to prove otherwise.

[Brian Fein]

I'm not arguing, nor trying to disprove.  This is not a debate to me, I'm just trying to understand the problem - more for my own curiosity than anything else.  I've flip-flopped three times in this thread, if you notice...

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, or anyone else is, I'm just trying to fully understand the phenomena.

[BeefStewert]

I'm not arguing, nor trying to disprove.  This is not a debate to me, I'm just trying to understand the problem - more for my own curiosity than anything else.  I've flip-flopped three times in this thread, if you notice...

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, or anyone else is, I'm just trying to fully understand the phenomena.

By bad.  It just seems like you are so close and grasping at ways to be unconvinced.

[run_to_win]

This was a very interesting thread.  Physics rocks!

[raptorsfan29]

And raptor - that crap from Speed was just that - crap.  There is a way a bus can jump 50 feet, but not on an overpass like that.  They'd need to be going way faster than 55 MPH and need a much bigger ramp.  If you want I can try to solve that problem for you, too (in a vaccuum of course!).

yeah try.and What would the formula be.

[Spider-Dan]

Going with the bowling ball/beach ball scenario again:

Supply the required force to launch a bowling ball 5 feet through the air.
Now apply the same force to a beach ball.
Will the beach ball fly more or less than 5 feet?  I'd guess much, much more.

[run_to_win]

There's some relationship between the density of the projectile and the wind resistance.

In a vacuum the beach ball goes farther. 

In reality, the initial force is also a factor.  A moderate force would mean a lower initial velocity which means less wind resistance so the beach ball would travel farther.  A larger force would make the bowling ball go farther, and straighter, as  the density of the bowling ball is less affected by wind resistance.

You can kick a beach ball farther than you can kick a bowling ball, but a cannon could shoot a bowling ball farther than a beach ball.

There's some relationship between the density of the object, velocity of the object and wind resistance.

[Spider-Dan]

You can kick a beach ball farther than you can kick a bowling ball, but a cannon could shoot a bowling ball farther than a beach ball.

I think this is essentially the point Brian is getting at.  There is definitely a point where a given amount of force will push the less dense item a greater distance than the denser item, and there is another point where a different, much larger amount of force will push the denser item a greater distance than the less dense item.

The question is whether a kick from a player fits in the first category, or the second... and it would appear that it falls in the second.  However, to say that the helium-filled ball doesn't go as far "because it's lighter" is somewhat misleading, in that it implies that the denser football simply travels farther, period.  The results might not be the same if the ball were thrown instead of kicked.

[bsfins]

You kick a bowling ball,You break your foot,You kick a Beach ball as hard as you can..you pull your groin...My advise...Don't try to kick anything.

Back to the serious discussion at hand....

[jtex316]

I've kicked my bowling ball many a times in anger after not striking or missing a spare, and i've never broken my foot.  And I used 16lb bowling balls.

But it's fun to watch those 16lb balls get slammed on to the ground, and see how high those suckers can bounce back up.

[Spider-Dan]

I finally saw the episode of Mythbusters in question.  I realize exactly where this thread went wrong:

P.S. A helium filed ball doesn't fly as far,less mass. Force=Mass times Acceleration
If the force applied is equal,the one with the heavier mass tends to fly longer.Inertia is conserved.

It's not "if the force applied is equal"... it's "if the speed is equal".  The exact word they used was "speed," which instantly clarifies this entire debate.

If two objects have equal speed, the one with more mass will go farther.