More War Inevitable?

[bsmooth]

Iraq was a threat to the US.  Sudan is not. 

You do realize that with Sudan being immediately south of Egypt,  any US intervention would cause the America hating crowd would make the exact same, as well as other, bogus claims.

Had the verbal masturbation club known as the UN raised one finger towards Sudan then you know the US would have done what it can.

Try to think about all the people not being slaughtered because of the US. 

Sadly, there's not one single fact that supports your koolaid induced "fighting for oil" claim.

Just how did Iraq pose a military threat to us? Iraq invaded Kuwait because they said Kuwait had drilled under the border and was siphoning off the Iraq oilfields. But it wasn't about oil. So we wet to war with one oil producing nation to save another. Do you really think that if Iraq kept Kuwait, our oil supply would have suffered? Also if Saddam was so evil and commtted so many atocities, why then haven't we gone after other brutal regimes. Hell North Korea is believed to have nukes, and missle technology to hit us, but we still pander to them.
Also we mau not have created poverty in the Middle East, but we have and still do support brutal, totalitarian governments that do oppress their people and keep a large potion of their citizens poor.
Right now I can't tell if you're misinformed or blind.

[run_to_win]

Korea-  We had no business there.  The conflict was between North and South Korea.

Don't forget Communist China.  Stopping the flow of communism.  Helping a country remain free - yada yada yada.  All that stuff that goes against the socialist montra.  We had no business other than being asked by the leaders of South Korea.  Had we not gone then people like you would be using this as an example of the uncaring US.

Vietnam-  Again, the conflict was between North and South Vietnam.  We should not have stuck our noses there.  Look what happened as a result.

Again, same scenario.  Going to the aid of another democratic country.  Had we not then this would be another example for your "the USA does not care" list.   The USA can do no right in your eyes.

The result?  It was a war in which we did not lose a single battle. The only problem was the weak stomached yellow dog hippies at home.

Iraq-  Again, we had no business going to Iraq in the '90s.  Let them settle the conflict with Kuwait. 

Now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth!  What about helping a sovereign country remain free?  So you'd sit back and let Iraq wipe out the Kuwaitis?

Also invading Iraq in 2003 proved futile as no "weapons of mass destruction" were found.

Now you're really talking out of both sides of your mouth!  What about stopping genocide?  By the words of the Iraqi prosecutor Saddam killed nearly 100,000 Iraqis a year!

Why is the U.S. constantly trying to police the world??

You people are too funny!  You bitch about the US not helping in Sudan, and you bitch about the US when we do help.  

If they really want to free a country, make it Cuba. 

I think you'd be very happy there.  Maybe you could get a picture with Castro while wearing your TDMMC t-shirt!

[run_to_win]

Just how did Iraq pose a military threat to us?

Operational Cooperation, Abdul Basit Karim (aka Ramzi Yousef), yada, yada, yada.

Do you really think that if Iraq kept Kuwait, our oil supply would have suffered?

If it was about oil then we could have just buddied up to Saddam and bought the oil from him much more cheaply than repelling his invasion.

Hell North Korea is believed to have nukes, and missle technology to hit us....

Thanks Bill Clinton. 

Also we mau not have created poverty in the Middle East, but we have and still do support brutal, totalitarian governments that do oppress their people and keep a large potion of their citizens poor.

The governments we support are by far the least offensive of the region in these aspects.

[bsmooth]

1. How did the Iraq military pose a direct threat to the US?
2. Once again if Saddam was so evil, why haven't we stepped in where other leaders are slaughtering people?
3. Show me a regime in the Middle East that is more secular, and totalitarian to its people than Saudi Arabia.
4. Why did we go into Iraq when we still hadn't secured Afghanistan, and put down the Taliban, and Osama is still free inspiring his followers.
5. What was the difference  between the invasion of Kuwait, and the invasion of Bosnia by the military forces of other countries, that pormpted a massive retaliation by us on one, and little on the other?

It has become clear that you are misinformed on world history and the fact that many, many wars have been fought over land, money, resources, etc.

[run_to_win]

Please shove your condescending liberal attitude.

How did the Iraq military pose a direct threat to the US?

The military did not directly.  Again, "Operational Cooperation", Abdul Basit Karim (aka Ramzi Yousef - killed 6 Americans in New York city on 2/26/93), yada, yada, yada.

2. Once again if Saddam was so evil, why haven't we stepped in where other leaders are slaughtering people?

Probably because people like you whine so much when the US interferes without our own interests being at stake.

3. Show me a regime in the Middle East that is more secular, and totalitarian to its people than Saudi Arabia.

Now are you suggesting that we fight the entire muslim culture?  Please compare the average income of Saudis with other countries in the region.

4. Why did we go into Iraq when we still hadn't secured Afghanistan, and put down the Taliban, and Osama is still free inspiring his followers.

We didn't.  We respect the sovereignity of Pakistan and other countries in the region.   Inspiring his followers to do what?

5. What was the difference  between the invasion of Kuwait, and the invasion of Bosnia by the military forces of other countries, that pormpted a massive retaliation by us on one, and little on the other?

Not totally sure. Here are a few possible factors:  Clinton vs Bush, international relations, different US interests, the difficulties of refereeing a civil war, etc.

It has become clear that you are misinformed on world history

Shove it.  You see America as evil.

many, many wars have been fought over land, money, resources, etc.

And the award for the most obvious statement of the week goes to...

[Spider-Dan]

many, many wars have been fought over land, money, resources, etc.

And the award for the most obvious statement of the week goes to...

Can you think of any wars started over energy?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't energy a resource?

[run_to_win]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't energy a resource?

Couldn't you give bsmooth more 2 hours on throne? 

[crazy_scar_man]

I don't think you can classify that war as just an oil grab (at least, from our standpoint).

Don't get me wrong. I didn't start this thread to debate whether or not America is guilty of Imperialism.

Only history can judge war time conflicts. Many americans believed Vietnam was a worthy venture at the time based on our continued fear of the spread of communism.

My thought is that the greatest threat to our future and heritage in this world is war itself. And so my question is, do you think we can avoid the expansion of war? Avoid additional battlefronts and the polarization of the international community during a time rife with the threats I listed in my first post. Or do you think that conflict will only spread and get worse?

[Frimp]

Don't get me wrong. I didn't start this thread to debate whether or not America is guilty of Imperialism.

Only history can judge war time conflicts. Many americans believed Vietnam was a worthy venture at the time based on our continued fear of the spread of communism.

My thought is that the greatest threat to our future and heritage in this world is war itself. And so my question is, do you think we can avoid the expansion of war? Avoid additional battlefronts and the polarization of the international community during a time rife with the threats I listed in my first post. Or do you think that conflict will only spread and get worse?

Yes. The war will spread just as President Bush said it would in his 9/11 speech. And, I will support it every step of the way.

[run_to_win]

Whether or not we choose to fight, the war is out there and has been since the 1980's.   

[crazy_scar_man]

Whether or not we choose to fight, the war is out there and has been since the 1980's.   

Your completely frustrating. How can you make such a broad statement so cavalier? Your like one of those "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" people that make heavy handed statements with nothing to back it up.

Do you really think that we've been at the same level of risk since 1980? That's assinine.

[run_to_win]

Your completely frustrating. How can you make such a broad statement so cavalier? Your like one of those "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" people that make heavy handed statements with nothing to back it up.

Do you really think that we've been at the same level of risk since 1980? That's assinine.

I feel your pain.     Many liberals find reality frustrating.  "That's not the way it's supposed to be!"

Just like any war, the level of risk oscillates.  We're probably at less risk now than the time period that encompasses the two attacks on the World Trade Center, but at more risk than the 1980's. 


American Deaths from Terrorism

1982 kidnappings in Lebanon (13 killed)
4/18/83 US embassy Beirut (17)
10/23/83 Beirut barracks (241)
12/12/83 US embassy Kuwait (5)
9/20/84 US embassy Beirut (24)
12/3/84 Kuwait Airways Flight 221 (2)
4/12/85 Madrid Spain (0)
6/14/85 TWA flight 847 (1)
10/7/85 Achille Lauro (1)
4/2/86 TWA flight 840 (4)
4/5/86 West Berlin disco (2)
12/21/88 Pan Am Flight 103 (259)
2/26/93 World Trade Center (6)
4/19/95   Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building (Oklahoma City) (168)
   www.jaynadavis.com
11/13/95 Saudi Arabia (5)
6/25/96 Khobar Tower barracks (19)
8/7/98 US embassy Tanzania (11)
8/7/98 US embassy Kenya (213)
10/12/00 USS Cole (17)
9/11/01 World Trade Center (2,792)
9/11/01 Pentagon (188)
9/11/01 United Airlines Flight 93 (40)
6/14/02 American consulate, Karachi, Pakistan (12)
5/29/04 Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (1)
6/11/04 Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (1)
12/6/04 American consulate, Jiddah, Saudi Arabia (5)

[Frimp]

Powerful cartoons.

If somehow, this (the real) mindset made it into the mainstream media, the next outcry from the left would be this "Yeah, but other countries have lost more people, and their governments didnt go into an illegal war under false pretences!"

Then, there would be another movie made.

[CF DolFan]

And, CF I was never for the war. I'm a freaking hippie member of PETA.  You should know that by my name...Buddhagirl.  Buddhists don't fight.  

I never thought that you would have been Madame. I'm pretty sure I know where you stand! 

A young, strong, very liberal, beautiful black Buddhist who was raised Southern Baptist ... confuses me every time I think about it. 

[Buddhagirl]

I never thought that you would have been Madame. I'm pretty sure I know where you stand! 

A young, strong, very liberal, beautiful black Buddhist who was raised Southern Baptist ... confuses me every time I think about it. 

 

Raised by strong parents that let me decide the path I want to walk.  They were Southern Baptist, but something happened to them while in Europe.