RICKY WILLIAMS ...MORE TROUBLE

[lovehate]

All this for tweed? I freely admit to being lifetime cheeba enthusiast.

ME tOO!  Whose business is it if he smokes weed anyway?  Who gives a shit?  Oh yeah I guess people like Brian Fein, who like to make fun of potheads as if they are all heroin addicts or something.  You can't play football if you smoke pot?  To me, it would sound just as strange to hear that you can't play football if your favorite food is pizza.  Fuck the NFL, and good for Ricky for doing what ever it is that he wants to do.  Leave him alone Brian.  Go pick on someone who is actually doing something wrong.   

[JVides]

ME tOO!  Whose business is it if he smokes weed anyway?  Who gives a shit?  Oh yeah I guess people like Brian Fein, who like to make fun of potheads as if they are all heroin addicts or something.  You can't play football if you smoke pot?  To me, it would sound just as strange to hear that you can't play football if your favorite food is pizza.  Fuck the NFL, and good for Ricky for doing what ever it is that he wants to do.  Leave him alone Brian.  Go pick on someone who is actually doing something wrong.   

Um, lovehate, smoking weed is illegal, and therefore wrong according to our country's laws.  Pizza is legal, just really fattening.  I'd imagine O-linemen eat constantly eat pizza.  What you do on your time is your business, and I won't make fun of you, criticize you, or whatever for it, but the drug is illegal and specifically banned from the NFL through collective bargaining.  The man chose to work in a profession where drug testing happens, much like if you elected to join the police force, or FBI, or countless other professions where drug testing is a prerequisite to employment.  You couldn't stand before the chief of police and tell him F%$ you, I smoke weed, deal with it. 

[Brian Fein]

I guess I can go out and rob a bank, then?  who cares?  I don't think there's anything wrong with it, what I do on my own time is my business!  Who gives a crap if robbing banks is illegal...?

I certianly hope you're kidding...

We all live by rules and laws.  What makes marijuana less legitimate than say crack?  Why is smoking weed "OK" in your book, but murder is not?  Where do you draw the line?

Unless you're an advocate of murder as well....

[Phishfan]

We all live by rules and laws.  What makes marijuana less legitimate than say crack?  Why is smoking weed "OK" in your book, but murder is not?  Where do you draw the line?

Unless you're an advocate of murder as well....

There is a big difference. In our society we have groups who live strictly by what the government tells us. We also have groups who think more outside the lines and do not have problems with victimless crimes. Murder obviously is not a victimless crime. I think as a general rule most marijuana smokers are not robbing people to support a habit, they are not driving recklessly like a drunk person, they are not violent, etc. It is becoming a social norm in some circles and still taboo in others. You really cannot compare everything that the government considers illegal though. The crimes just don't line up.



I wanted to modify because I knew someone would use the same fact JVides pointed out below. That little fact is easily corrected. Alcohol cause a lot of murder during prohibition too. I don't see Miller lining up and shooting anyone now though.

[JVides]

There is a big difference. In our society we have groups who live strictly by what the government tells us. We also have groups who think more outside the lines and do not have problems with victimless crimes. Murder obviously is not a victimless crime.

Not to go all "socio-economic" on you, but the drug trade is not victimless, either.  And I don't just mean the cocaine industry from Colombia, either.  Marijuana is big business, and those that produce and sell it in mass quantities (not someone with a hydroponics kit) commit murder to continue on with their business if they see fit, and... Aw, crap!  The thread's gone all "political"!

[TonyB0D]

yes, lets stop talking about the stupid, racist, non-sensical ban on marijuana and get back to the issue at hand.....RICKY WILLIAMS!!!  before i call homeland security on your asses....

so aynwaysssss......  i wonder when we'll have an answer to this ricky saga

[Dave Gray]

Why is smoking weed "OK" in your book, but murder is not?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

It was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus.
It's illegal every time you drive over the speed limit.
Lots of things are illegal for the wrong reasons (weed being a good one) and it takes resistance to change those things.

[JVides]

It was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus.
It's illegal every time you drive over the speed limit.

I think that speeding laws have an established reason for existing, Dave.  Not everyone can drive at 100 MPH and come out of it alive.  The law exists for public safety reasons.

It was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus....Lots of things are illegal for the wrong reasons (weed being a good one) and it takes resistance to change those things.

So smoking weed is a civil rights issue?  Every time I have this argument with a user, I ask the same question (why should it be legal?) and invariably, after the lame "hemp has many uses" line, and the "what about medicinal use" red herring (do YOU have glaucoma?), I get "because I want it to be legal".  Well, whoopee-dee-doo, I want a Maserati.  Weed is illegal because it can be addictive (for every study that claims it's not, there's one that claims otherwise) and yes, I know, alcohol can be addictive too, but the fact that the law is hypocritical does not necessarily make it wrong. 

I personally don't know whether weed should be legalized or not  (I lean towards no, but don't feel strongly about it either way).  I've never used it, never would if it were legal.  I need no "mind alteration" to live a good life.  I just simply abhor the "because I like to do it it should be legal" argument (not saying that's your argument, Dave).  It's narrow-minded and does not take into account all the variables that legalizing marijuana would entail.

[Dave Gray]

I think that speeding laws have an established reason for existing, Dave.

I never suggested that they didn't have a reason.  I was using this point to illustrate that all crimes are not equal.  Above, Brian was using the argument "a crime is a crime". 

So smoking weed is a civil rights issue?

Where would you even get this?  I mention Rosa Parks because that was a BAD LAW...but a law none the less.  If you think that I was calling weed smoking a civil rights issue because I mentioned it alongside Rosa Parks, I think that you should work on your reading comprehension.

Every time I have this argument with a user, I ask the same question (why should it be legal?) and invariably, after the lame "hemp has many uses" line, and the "what about medicinal use" red herring (do YOU have glaucoma?), I get "because I want it to be legal".

Look, man...I don't even smoke pot. ...or do any drugs for that matter.  But I believe in free choice, and letting people do what they want with their lives so much that it doesn't violate other people's rights.  Marijuana is illegal for the wrong reasons -- for its financial threat to the cotton industry ages ago.  If you think it's illegal for public safety, you're off your rocker.

Weed is illegal because it can be addictive (for every study that claims it's not, there's one that claims otherwise) and yes, I know, alcohol can be addictive too, but the fact that the law is hypocritical does not necessarily make it wrong.

- sugar
- cigarettes
- caffeine
- alcohol
- over the counter cold medicines

All of these are habit forming -- moreso than marijuana.

Making weed illegal puts money into the hands of drug dealers, jacks up the price of the product, and takes money away from a taxable income for the government.  Think of booze -- when it was illegal, crime was created because moving illegal booze made money for the crooks.

Putting people in jail for a plant that grows in the ground is moronic.

[Philly Fin Fan]

Regardless of our individual thoughts about legalizing pot, the fact of the matter is that pothead's employer (the NFL) has deemed it unacceptable, in conjunction with his union during the Collective Bargaining Agreement. No one is forcing him to play in the NFL. He left once, and did not have to come back. He chose to come back. By choosing to come back, he knew he was in the substance abuse program and would be subject to testing for ALL substances that were banned, of which I'm sure he was given a list  (since Doug was able to find it, I'm sure the NFLPA gives it to its members).

If it was the NBA, where they don't ban pot, we wouldn't be talking about this. But its the NFL.

End of story.

[JVides]

Where would you even get this?  I mention Rosa Parks because that was a BAD LAW...but a law none the less.  If you think that I was calling weed smoking a civil rights issue because I mentioned it alongside Rosa Parks, I think that you should work on your reading comprehension.

I apologize if I misunderstood you.  I have argued with people that believe this to be a civil rights issue, and I suppose I may have lumped you in.  However, your three sentences provided no "transitional phrases", so let's not go after my reading comprehension skills, shall we?

Marijuana is illegal for the wrong reasons -- for its financial threat to the cotton industry ages ago.  If you think it's illegal for public safety, you're off your rocker

I did not know this, and I've done some searhing (not much) for Congressional records (these records describe the intent behind laws passed) that would back this statement up.  So far, zilch.  I'm not gonna take the word of legalization proponents, and my searches have so far only turned up hits on proponents' web sites.

- sugar
- cigarettes
- caffeine
- alcohol
- over the counter cold medicines

All of these are habit forming -- moreso than marijuana.

That statement is purely speculative.  Besides, I've never seen anyone rendered useless for 3 hours because he had a Hershey's bar, a Red Bull, and a couple of smokes, have you?  I have had to send employees home because they showed up high on weed, though.  (Drunk, too, but like I said, hypocritical does not mean wrong.)

Making weed illegal puts money into the hands of drug dealers, jacks up the price of the product, and takes money away from a taxable income for the government.  Think of booze -- when it was illegal, crime was created because moving illegal booze made money for the crooks.

Ah, you appeal to my accountant side, I see.  No arguments there.  As I said, I don't really know what to think about the legalization issue.

Putting people in jail for a plant that grows in the ground is moronic.

I can think of several things you can do with plants that are HIGHLY illegal.  You think they make cocaine in a factory out of car parts or something?  Before you say it, I know there's a difference:  Cocaine is processed and handled whereas Mary Jane is not (well, it is, but to a much lower extent).  You used a blanket statement, I couldn't let it pass.

[Brian Fein]

Dave, murder was an extreme example.

If my job said that I'd get in trouble for speeding in the parking lot, and I ended up getting disciplined for speeding in the parking lot, why do I (or anyone) have a right to bitch?

I violated my job's rule, and the law.  Period.  What makes it "OK" cause its weed?

[TonyB0D]

the real reason weed was banned in the first place has its roots in a night when  a drunk & stoned mexican killed a white man...they blamed it on the weed as an excuse (because at that point in time weed was mostly used by minorities) and used it to go after black & mexicans (the mexicans were the ones bringing the plants here from down south).  also at that time, the current "drug czar" launched a personal crusade against weed (influenced by a bunch of factors, one of which was previously mentioned above) in the same vein as the McCarthy communism issue.  it was such a fast & intimidating blitzkrieg (back then in the 30's the general public was much more easliy controlled) that today, after generations of government propoganda (ie all the thigns you THINK you believe about pot, addictiveness, how it works, health effects, social impact (all lies)) people have developed extreme misunderstanding about pot.  prohibition continues to destroy the lives of normal, everyday law abiding citizens by arresting them for no rational reason, and Ricky Williams is just the latest in a long line of people whose lives have been turned upside down by it.

ps - Philly hit it on the head.  even tho theres nothing wrong with pot, it IS banned by HIS employer (as well as mine) and therefore he should have had enough self-control.

[Dave Gray]

However, your three sentences provided no "transitional phrases", so let's not go after my reading comprehension skills, shall we?

Fair enough.  I shouldn't attack the speaker anyways...bad arguing on my part.

I did not know this, and I've done some searhing (not much) for Congressional records (these records describe the intent behind laws passed) that would back this statement up.  So far, zilch.

And you probably won't find anything in law about this.  The reason that it's in the books is probably for public health reasons, but in reality, people high up in government had stakes in the cotton industy.  ...and hemp was a threat to them.  By outlawing weed for puritanical reasons, they eliminated their competition.  ...now all of your shirts are made of cotton.

Besides, I've never seen anyone rendered useless for 3 hours because he had a Hershey's bar, a Red Bull, and a couple of smokes, have you?

No, but is marijuana's danger in that people become lethargic?  Sugar is a main killer in the US....and we all know that cigarettes cause case after case of cancer.  I just used those examples to point out that the government does not care about your health.  ...at least not enough to outlaw things that are bad for it.

I have had to send employees home because they showed up high on weed, though.  (Drunk, too, but like I said, hypocritical does not mean wrong.)

I do not condone drug use on the job (or at all for that matter.)  I think that just like any substance, it needs to be used responsibly.  

I can think of several things you can do with plants that are HIGHLY illegal.  You think they make cocaine in a factory out of car parts or something?  Before you say it, I know there's a difference:  Cocaine is processed and handled whereas Mary Jane is not (well, it is, but to a much lower extent).  You used a blanket statement, I couldn't let it pass.

Nor should you have to.  If I were king, coke would be legal too.  Let people do what they want, I say.  Realistically, this will never happen, though....and I think that we should start with baby steps.

For alcohol to be legal, and pot to not, makes no sense.  Alcohol is more dangerous, more imparing, worse for your body, and causes people to be aggressive and problematic.  Hypocrisy bothers me.

[Dave Gray]

Dave, murder was an extreme example.

If my job said that I'd get in trouble for speeding in the parking lot, and I ended up getting disciplined for speeding in the parking lot, why do I (or anyone) have a right to bitch?

I violated my job's rule, and the law. Period. What makes it "OK" cause its weed?

I think it's a bad rule.  But I'm not saying it's okay for Ricky to smoke weed.  He signed a contract forfeiting that right.  I don't really think that it's the NFL's business what Ricky does that doesn't affect his job duties.