The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Positions of Need:

Center
Right Tackle
Running Back
Linebacker

We pick 4th in the 2nd round and then 18th. So, odds are we will be able to get the best player available at one of these positions but not with our second pick unless we trade up. I am a huge fan of that idea.

If we do not trade up, I just hope we get the best center or RT available although that Notre Dame kid is still out there at Linebacker and think he can make our defense insane. So, my preference is either him or Jenkins at RT. Either of them will make us better and are "sure things" as much as 2nd round draft picks can be.

Why is that ND Linebacker still there? What's wrong with him?

I don't know if there is a consensus among the experts, but my personal concern on him is that he is underweight to the point where he couldn't be a 3 down player (although a lot of teams including the Dolphins play a lot of sub packages these days).   He is more the size of a large Safety than an LB.  I think his potential is that on passing downs, he has good coverage skills for an LB and can be a good situational blitzer.  I just don't think that a lot of teams were going to be willing to spend a First Round pick on a situational player.  I'm sure he will go in the 2nd round though.  Well, reasonably sure.  LOL

I don't know but I don't think I saw even one mock draft where he didn't go between 15-25. The medicals came in late for a lot of players so maybe there is something. I know he is a bit small for the position but if every mock draft from "the pros" out there had him taken, something must've happened.

Because he's a tweener LB / Safety.  That's why he would be perfect for Miami, that's what we need.

I would wait till round 4 and grab the kid from FSU, Nasirildeen if you need a tweener.  That kid is going to be a day three steal.  He came on really strong in 2019, only to see most of 2020 wiped out because of injury.  That's why he's a day 3 pick.

I hope they take the ND LB first, I liked him the best of all the LB's.  Then I'd like to see them take a RB, unless there is still a top center available.

I am leaning toward the LB as well as Grier loves versatility and hope we move up for a Center or RT. You never know how the draft falls, especially a year from now. Might be our best chance to get a C or RT right now.

We're on the clock and Williams is gone so there goes RB if you had any hope left.

We basically have our pick of RT, Center or LB. Hope they don't get cute and draft a kicker.

Jevon Holland, Safety.


Ehhh..........I will wait and see. Safety is a more important position these days and apparently Jevon was the best one in this draft. Not the pick I wanted but I guess we had more needs than I thought. Sure wish we addressed some of them in free agency.

Epic fail by Grier.

That's two years in a row we have missed out on our guy for this position by being cute and hoping he would slip - last year I can put up with, we traded for Jordan Howard and he turned out to be a big, fat bust, fair enough... Breida too, and he has also been a disappointment.

This year there was no excuse - we needed a top flight RB. Harris or Williams would have fixed the position for at least the next five years by which time we should already be a serious Superbowl contender. Gaskin as our #1 RB doesn't scare anyone - every team we play will be in a pass protection scheme every down because we can't run the ball.

We passed over Moehrig for Holland - apparently there's something there that makes Grier think he's better. Will he be the TE covering player we're missing?

Then we trade up for Eichenberg, another Tackle/Guard option. Maybe it's to cover for Flowers?

Notre Dame LB Owusu-Koramoah is still on the board! - this guy must be red flagged for some reason?

I think we are sticking with Hunt at RT, he did play pretty well the last half of the season. Eichenberg is a solid player but there were other solid players we passed on or ones that would've been there at 50. Not thrilled with this pick but it's another wait and see. Grier certainly isn't following my game plan.

I'm in an NFL discord chat, we live to bust each others balls and even they're saying Holland was a good pick.  Eichenberg is a solid player like you said, I think he'll be a good guard but we'll see.

God damn Broncos.  No guarantee that the Dolphins would have taken Williams but the Broncos took him right before the Fins pick.  I like Jevon Holland a lot.  If not for the fact that he is a little smaller than advertised, I think he would have been considered the best Safety in the draft.  He doesn't have the size to cover a TE, but he is fast and can play some cornerback.  So I think he would be excellent in obvious passing situations as he can run with Wide Receivers.  He isn't afraid to come up and put a hit on someone to support the run defense but I don't know that his size will allow him to solo tackle an RB of any heft.     Eichenberg was fairly high on my radar.  Not a bad pick.  I think there are other positions that were of greater need.  But not a bad pick.  

I don't like the Jevon Holland pick; he lacks experience and will take years to develop.  There were other players that could have been taken.

Hard to get a read on Eichenberg if you don't follow college football. Some places say he is better suited as a Guard, other places are saying he is a plug and play RT who will be solid but unspectacular due to short arms.

If he is a legit NFL starter at RT then that's cool. Traded a 2022 3rd rounder to move up and I am definitely in favor of trading up for starters.

Something is wrong with this linebacker from Notre Dame, he might have bad medicals or something. Can't be his size, that didn't change from when everyone mocked him going in the Top 25.

Browns finally pick him up at #52

This kid is going to play with a huge chip on his shoulder. A lot of teams might regret passing on him, time will tell.

We should note that these guys have positional flexibility. Flores loves that shit.

As it stands right now, we got 4 Day 1 starters with our first 4 picks. Maybe not the 4 I would've taken but we are still batting 1.000

The big problem for me is that we have managed to get weaker than this time last year in two critical weak spots.

I just can't believe we are going into next season even worse off at linebacker and running back knowing this exact situation going into the draft, and having the capital to fix it.

I have said all along this is a rebuild process over a number of years to build a dynasty, and this was somewhere between years one and two, and I expect us to be a real contender by years three to four (2022-2023). That's what happened with the Steelers in the 70s, to an extent the Niners in the 80s, and Dallas in the 90s - three consecutive loaded drafts that launched them into greatness.

But you have to make the picks stick, and you have to address critical needs as they come up. The Steelers addressed RB early, as did Dallas. We are ignoring it to our detriment and piling even more pressure on Tua by giving him a pathetic running game. That's just dumb, and I don't care how many times people say it's a passing league now, at some stage you have to run the ball and run it well. Just ask Dan Marino.

We did well by grabbing a franchise QB last year and addressing the offensive line in one hit, and for doing that well done. But I am fed up with us having a non-existent rushing plan and watching opposition tight ends tear us a new one - this was our opportunity to fix those glaring problems while moving forward, and we failed.

^^^

A dominant offensive line can make an average RB look like a super star, just look at some of the Steeler teams.

Yeah, and look how well Dallas started in 1993 when Smith held out at the start of the season. As good as the Great Wall of Dallas was, they couldn't make up for a B-grade fill-in.

Errr, since when was Franco Harris an average RB?

since always

Which would explain why that place in Canton Ohio gives out bronze busts to average players.  ??? ::)

Raiders have traded in front of us... could it be that another of Grier's well-laid plans is about to be torpedoed?

That's me out for the day, off to watch a game of my brand of football (AFL).

See you guys back in a few hours to survey the wreckage.  :P

The Dolphins never lost with Marino because they couldn't run the ball, they lost because the defense was NEVER able to hold a lead.

Agreed.  It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Average.

With the selection of Holland, it is very likely that McCain and Rowe will be gone due to their cap hits unless they want to take big pay cuts and reduced roles. Even then, at least one of them is going.

We finally pick a RB up - in round 7 again, and our last pick of the draft...

So the "brains trust" of our team figures Gaskin will be our #1 back after a massive 584 yard season, when teams began to figure him out towards the end and he started coughing up the ball...

Better get a bucket...

(https://i.imgur.com/q8kdRbj.gif)

There seems to be a pattern here going back to the Jeff Ireland days - we seem to be picking younger and cheaper replacements each year for our existing better players.

If this is a Ross directive to his staff, someone should send him a message - a successful team in the NFL is one that wins Superbowls, it's not the cheapest list on the field.

 

The guy played 10 games with a 4.1ypc and fumbled twice all season. I don't get your hard on for him. Is he a stud, of course not but he is serviceable.

That's what I'm saying. Not a good O-Line and no other offense due to injuries and rookie QB's and he still had a 4.1 YPC. Drafting a RB was not a top need. I would've taken Harris if he fell to the 3rd round but no RB is worth a 1st rounder except for the once a decade guys like Barkley.

Am I being a bit tough on Gaskin? Probably is the answer.

But as you guys have said he is not a stud RB, and if you have dreams of a Superbowl dynasty you gotta get one. Especially with a very young QB.

We had a lot of high picks to do it this year, and chose not to. Apparently this is the RB roster we are happy with after adding Malcolm Brown. Will that bite us?

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article251091939.html

Oh?  Name me a Superbowl dynasty in recent memory that had a stud RB.

Do you believe NE is the only SB dynasty "in recent memory"?  If so, that's kind of a loaded question.

Most SB champions that did not have Tom Brady at QB featured an RB who had a recent All-Pro or Pro Bowl selection.  Does that count as a "stud RB"?

Name them.  I had to go all the way back 2014 with the Seahawks to find a "Stud" RB on a team that won the superbowl.

Certainly can't hurt to have a great RB on your team, but there just aren't too many great and consistent RBs in the league, period.

Henry for the Titans is obviously great and helps that offense, but then you go to guys like Ezekiel and Barkley and while they are good, they haven't taken their teams anywhere. I don't even know who played RB for the Bucs or Chiefs. It just seems like a luxury in today's NFL rather than a requirement for success. The Bills and Steelers certainly didn't have great RBs and they won their divisions. How many more teams are like them?

Among SB champions in the previous 10 years that did not have Tom Brady at QB...

2019 (KC): LeSean McCoy has made 2 All-Pro teams and 6 Pro Bowls (most recently in 2017); he led the league in rushing yards for the 2010s
2017 (PHI): Jay Ajayi made the Pro Bowl the year prior
2015 (DEN): CJ Anderson made the Pro Bowl the year prior
2013 (SEA): you already got this one
2012 (BAL): Ray Rice made the Pro Bowl (but did not participate due to SBXLVII)
2011 (NYG): none
2010 (GB): John Kuhn made the Pro Bowl the year after GB won, but you could say he doesn't count because he's a FB

Even if we throw out McCoy and Kuhn, the majority of those teams had a Pro Bowl-caliber RB.

If you look at the previous 10 years, it's a pretty similar story.  Willie Parker, Joseph Addai, Jerome Bettis, Corey Dillon, Jamal Lewis, Marshall Faulk... the champions usually had a Pro Bowl-caliber RB.

2019- Shady didn't play a down in that Super Bowl and was washed up by the end of the year.  The Chiefs main RB was none other than Dolphins reject Damien Williams and he actually looked good, but any average RB would look like a star on that loaded team. 

2017- Ajayi wasn't even the starter on that Philly squad.  He had one good year in 2016 and that was pretty much it for him.

2011- No Pro Bowlers but the Giants had gotten away with their RB by committee Brandon Jacobs/Ahmad Bradshaw for years and it worked. 

Bottom line is, you don't necessarily need a stud RB but you do need some semblance of a running game.

Ajayi was traded to PHI halfway through the season.  Excluding the week 17 game where PHI rested their starters (having already clinched homefield), Ajayi led the Eagles in rushing yards every game but one, even though he was technically "coming off the bench."

I think this list supports the idea that you don't need to pick a RB in the 1st round.

That's my whole point.  Had we not gotten cute with pre-draft trades, we could've had a stud running back like Javonte Williams in addition to what we currently have.

I think you are forgetting about stud running back Gerrid Doaks. :)

I'm just going to come out and say, fuck Javonte Williams.  He's a RB that was taken in the 2nd round, I feel no regret not drafting him.  He's not Travis Henry, he runs a 4.55 forty which isn't that fast, we aren't missing out on some great RB.  He might be a fine player, but y'all are acting like we passed on Barry Sanders or something.

It's kinda hard to separate LB/DE positions in the Dolphins Hybrid scheme. Even if you think the LB position is weaker the combination of LB/Edge is improved in my humble opinion.

As far as RB goes I'm in favor of getting better up front rather than getting better at RB and I think we did that. We'll see how it turns out.

As Spider has alluded to, it depends on your definition of a dynasty and what you mean by recent memory.

I mentioned two HOF backs on page 2 of this thread (Harris, Emmitt Smith), so I am guessing that's not recent enough?

Spider has covered a lot of this ground in my absence, so without trying to be too repetitious and hopefully adding more food for thought, if you look beyond the Brady bunch the previous big dynasties had stud backs - Dallas of the nineties had Smith, San Francisco had Roger Craig and Ricky Watters, Pittsburgh had Harris, the Dolphins had Czonka.

At the risk of thread drift, does Washington count as a dynasty? (four Superbowl appearances in the 80s & 1991 for three titles with the same coach but different QBs). They had Riggins for two of them, the 1991 team had Byner.

If you stretch that to consecutive Superbowl appearances, you have Faulk for the Rams, T.D. for the Broncos. Maybe we shouldn't include Thurman Thomas for the Bills because they didn't win any? (even though four consecutive Superbowl appearances is kind of unique).
 

You guys are having to go waaayy back, the game has changed a lot since then.  As I mentioned, you have to go back to 2014, to find a Superbowl winning team with a stud RB.  It doesn't count if a guy was a pro bowler the year before but was only serviceable at best the year the team won the superbowl lol. 

Some really interesting points brought up here!

We did a hell of a lot of blitzing last season, and maybe it was because of weakness in the DL? Do you think we will see a lot more 5 man fronts and less linebackers this year? Or the pass rush will be good enough with a 3 or 4 man front to allow more coverage? (either by linebackers or additional corners & safeties)

If that's the case I can at least kind of see what they have in mind, although it still seems a big risk letting Van Noy go with no replacement. I may be overrating him, but in the games I saw I thought our defense functioned its best with him in the thick of it. As much as I liked what I saw from Baker and Van Ginkel, they are going to have to step up and be a lot more consistent to fill that gap. If we do use more two linebacker sets, it's basically daring the opposition to run the ball right at us too, for better or worse...

As for our rushing game, there was a report yesterday that Flores said he is planning that the improved passing game with Waddle & Fuller as deep threats will help spread out the defensive front to allow the (improved) OL to create more successful running lanes. See how it goes and hope for the best, although I am still skeptical.  

It absolutely was because the edge rushers on the team couldn't get pressure so blitzes were used. I expect that Phillips will be expected to rush from the edge on passing downs and create more pressure which leaves less pressure on the LB's to fill that role. I'm also wondering if they will move Baker to the outside and have McKinney play inside when in the 4-3. I thought that was a weak spot for the Dolphins last year as Baker had a hard time fighting off blocks and making tackles and is better suited to the outside, McKinney might be better in the middle. As you said we shall see how it works out.

It's interesting to note that Phillips is listed as a LB on the Dolphins website. With that in mind I'm not sure the LB group isn't better than it was last year.

Apparently your definition of "stud" is All-Pro, or something?  It has to be someone with a claim to the best RB in the league, or it doesn't matter...?  I'm talking about a Pro Bowl-caliber RB, not a HOF RB.

SB champions usually have a Pro Bowl caliber RB, and it's pretty silly to say that a RB who made last season's Pro Bowl doesn't count as a Pro Bowl-caliber RB.

Without a pre-draft trade, how could MIA possibly have picked Williams?  At the end of the season, MIA had 3, 18, and 36.  Picking Williams at 3 is a fireable offense, picking him at 18 (as the first RB off the board!) is an incredible reach, and he was already gone at 36.

If they weren't pro bowl caliber the year that team won the superbowl then they didn't really contribute that much to that teams success that year

Flores said today that the addition of Waddle and Fuller will greatly improve our rushing offense because the defense now can't crowd the line for fear that Waddle and Fuller will blow right by them.

I'm not saying Gaskin is Barry Sanders, but you can't rush without the rest of your offense in check so it was pointless trying to "upgrade" at RB before the other stuff. If he and the other key offensive players play a full season, it would be surprising to me if Gaskin didn't have 1,000 yards rushing.

I hate the term "Pro Bowl RB," mainly because the criteria isn't set, and much of it is a popularity contest or some team's fan base stuffing the ballot box.

All-Pro is fine...only one of those each year.

If they were Pro Bowl caliber the year the team won, that doesn't mean they "contributed"... that means they were one of the best backs in the league.  It usually means they were the primary offensive reason the team won.  That's an incredibly high bar.

I don't think anyone is saying if you don't have one of the best backs in the league that year, you can't win. But you generally DO need to have a RB capable of playing at that level.  Very few teams win the SB with a backfield of replacement-level journeymen.

You can stop the hate for Denver. According to "sources" Miami was not going to draft Williams anyway.

Miami was planning on picking Holland (https://www.reddit.com/r/miamidolphins/comments/n4r73x/mike_hernandez_an_espn_reporter_who_has_close/)

Miami was never going to draft a RB even if Harris was available at 36.