I have never seen public perception change on an issue as much as Israel.

[Spider-Dan]

Can you just argue a subject once without twisting facts? You said "describing the dead schoolchildren as "collateral damage" would mean the targeting of the school was intentional"?  When you have nothing you have no issue reaching for facts. The literal definition of collateral damage calls it an accident. Webster Dictionary for collateral damage : injury inflicted on something other than an intended target
specifically : civilian casualties of a military operation

As I already said: the difference between the schoolchildren being "collateral damage" and "accidental victims due to an error" is whether the school building was itself the intended target.

If the school building was NOT the intended target, OR if the US military mistakenly misidentified that building as something other than a school, OR if the weapon guidance systems malfunctioned, or any other ERROR, then all the Trump Administration has to do say so!  It's as simple as saying "We didn't know it was a school, and it was never our intention to harm innocent schoolchildren."  But as you well know, there's no chance Trump or his lackeys will ever admit to a mistake.  So the only answer is It Was Always Part Of The Very Strong And Powerful Plan.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

On October 7, 367 Israeli soldiers (and other security forces) were killed.  Multiple military bases were attacked.

Military bases were not attacked they were bypassed and generally Hamas avoided the IDF.  The Israeli soldiers that died reponed to the attack and placed themselves between Hamas and civilians in an attempt to protect the civilians.  The IDF did NOT use civilians as shields.  To the limited extent that Hamas was targeting the IDF that was an act of war not terrorism.  On Oct 7 the goal of Hamas was to avoid the IDF and kill and capture as many as many civilians as possible.

I am not someone who says everything the other side did is terrorism. 

On 9/11 the hijacking of airplanes was terrorism.  The crashing of airplanes into the WTC was terrorism.  The crashing of an airplane into the pentagon was an act of war, not terrorism.    The fact that civilian employees work at (and died at the pentagon) doesn't make it terrorism. Had the attacks in NYC not occurred and the only that day been on the Pentagon, it would still have justified the US going into Afghanistan as that was an act of war.   





 

[Spider-Dan]

Military bases were not attacked they were bypassed and generally Hamas avoided the IDF.

Six hours at hands of Hamas - new accounts reveal how Israeli base fell on 7 October

One year on from the 7 October Hamas attacks, tough questions are still being asked within Israel about the deadliest day in its history, when the country's powerful army was caught off guard and swiftly overwhelmed.

The BBC has heard accounts given to families of what happened at one military base that guarded the border with Gaza.

The Nahal Oz base was overrun by Hamas gunmen on the morning of 7 October and more than 60 Israeli soldiers are reported to have been killed - with others taken hostage.

Israel’s military is yet to publish its official inquiry into what happened there that day, but it has already briefed relatives of those killed there, and some have shared those details with the BBC.

This is the closest we have to an official account by Israel’s military of what happened on the day.

In an attempt to further piece together events, we have also spoken to survivors, seen messages from those who died, and listened to voice recordings reporting the attack as it happened, helping to build a picture of the speed and ferocity of the invasion.

The BBC has found:

Suspicious activity was spotted by many soldiers at the base before 7 October, not just the young women whose job it was to monitor border cameras
Soldiers noticed an abrupt stop to Hamas activity in the days before the attack
Many Israeli troops there were unarmed and official protocols had soldiers standing back when under attack, instead of advancing
Some surveillance equipment was either out of action or able to be destroyed by Hamas with ease

The details we have established raise questions - including why so few soldiers were armed at a base so close to the border, why more wasn’t done to respond to the intelligence and warnings that had been received, how it took so long for reinforcements to arrive, and whether the very infrastructure of the base had left those there unprotected.

We put our findings to the IDF, who responded to say it was in the midst of a “thorough investigation into the events of October 7th, including those in Nahal Oz, and the circumstances preceding”.

---

Detailed findings on attacks carried out on and after 7 October 2023 in Israel
Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel

27.  According to reports by Israeli sources and testimonies, as well as videos released by Hamas military wing, at least eight Israeli military bases and outposts were attacked on 7 October, among them Zikim, Paga outpost, Nahal Oz outpost, Sufa, Urim, Re’im, Kerem Shalom and Erez Crossing. At least 314 Israeli Security Forces personnel were killed in these and other locations.

---

None of my posts should be taken as excusing or sanctioning the actions of Hamas.
My point is that, in the exact same sense I hold the US Armed Forces to a higher standard of conduct than Al-Qaeda or ISIS, I hold the multibillion dollar military of the Israeli government (which is significantly subsidized by US taxpayers) to a higher standard of conduct than Hamas terrorists.  And that standard (for both examples) does not allow for "bombing a school or hospital just because you think some evildoers may be inside."