March Madness moving to April?

[Phishfan]

And I didn't bring up high school at all.

But you did say, "It's great that you believe that." when I said 18 year olds are not ready for the NFL. What else am I to infer?

[Phishfan]

 Football has the CFL,

Kids cannot jump from high school to the CFL either.

[Fau Teixeira]

Who the F' is working for free? They are getting an education most people can't afford and many people take decades paying off . If the kid doesn't take advantage of that opportunity, then that's on them! Doesn't mean the whole system needs to be changed. And if the kid doesn't like the system....oh well, don't be an NCAA athlete and pick another profession in life.

Nobody on planet earth is entitled to be a professional athlete!

You are being incredibly naive and ignoring history. Modern college athletics is most closely related to late 1800s company towns with company stores where workers were mandated to rent housing from the company and buy goods from company stores. They were paid in script (company currency) and were not paid in actual dollars.

Stop me if this sounds at all like student athletes being given scholarships, housing and food plans in exchange for work on a mandatory schedule and then being prohibited from making alternate income.

It does .. because that is what it is. Just like with college sports, the workers don't have to work there, they can get employment elsewhere. no-one is forcing them to work for a company or to play football.

The problem is that this type of runaway corporate exploitation system isn't legal in the united states and hasn't been for over 120 years.  We just don't recognize college sports for what they are unfortunately.

[MikeO]

You are being incredibly naive and ignoring history. Modern college athletics is most closely related to late 1800s company towns with company stores where workers were mandated to rent housing from the company and buy goods from company stores. They were paid in script (company currency) and were not paid in actual dollars.

Stop me if this sounds at all like student athletes being given scholarships, housing and food plans in exchange for work on a mandatory schedule and then being prohibited from making alternate income.

It does .. because that is what it is. Just like with college sports, the workers don't have to work there, they can get employment elsewhere. no-one is forcing them to work for a company or to play football.

The problem is that this type of runaway corporate exploitation system isn't legal in the united states and hasn't been for over 120 years.  We just don't recognize college sports for what they are unfortunately.

That is a terrible analogy.  Nobody is being exploited for crying out loud, it's the system in place and nobody is forced to be in the system. By your logic the Army is exploiting people. Want to be part of the Army, then we give you housing, food, and a mandatory schedule.  I mean...nobody is forced to do anything. If you don't like the NCAA system (or the Army) in the year 2015 nobody is forcing you to join either.  Comparing it to the 1800's is beyond silly.

[Fau Teixeira]

The army pays you in Dollars .. $$ .. Colleges do not ..

next ridiculous statement. please

I'd be fine with college sports if the athletes being forced to "work" over 40 hours / week were paid .. and had health coverage .. and were covered under workman's comp for workplace injuries and had collective bargaining. and were represented by the NLRB.

[MikeO]

The army pays you in Dollars .. $$ .. Colleges do not ..

next ridiculous statement. please

I'd be fine with college sports if the athletes being forced to "work" over 40 hours / week were paid .. and had health coverage .. and were covered under workman's comp for workplace injuries and had collective bargaining. and were represented by the NLRB.

So you want the athletes to be employees. Ok, no problem. Pay them, and then take away their free scholarship and make them pay tuition. They get a discount like any other employee at a college would for being a student, but they still have to pay out of pocket.  Oh, and since they are getting paid they will have to pay taxes and union dues. And no more free housing and meal plan, that must be paid for too. Hey they are employees now, the free ride is over.

So, what's a better deal for the athletes.....getting paid, then take out taxes, union dues, and having to pay for the College Tuition and all of their food, housing, and books.  OR the current system where everything is free.

Oh and by the way, "paying" the athletes might work for a couple basketball and football players. But it kills every other sport. No Field Hockey player or Tennis player would even attempt to survive under that "set up"

[Dave Gray]

You are being incredibly naive and ignoring history. Modern college athletics is most closely related to late 1800s company towns with company stores where workers were mandated to rent housing from the company and buy goods from company stores. They were paid in script (company currency) and were not paid in actual dollars.

I was just going to bring this example up.  It's the same thing.

You say that they're not being forced, MikeO.  But they essentially are.  They have no other realistic options in their field because it's a monopoly at both levels.

I am not saying that colleges HAVE to pay athletes.  But the fact that they are not allowed to pay them, coupled with athletes not being able to sell their own likeness, coupled with the fact that they are not allowed to work for pay in their field is bullshit and should be against the law.

Organizations are getting rich off of these kids and they are not allowed (at two levels, mind you) to profit one dime off of their own talents.

[MikeO]

I was just going to bring this example up.  It's the same thing.

You say that they're not being forced, MikeO.  But they essentially are.  They have no other realistic options in their field because it's a monopoly at both levels.

They aren't being forced because they don't have to be an NFL player or NBA player. If they want to be one they have to go through the system in place. If they don't like the system, don't be an NFL or NBA player. It's that simple.  They have options in life!  If you WANT to be a pro athlete in the NFL or NBA, then this is the system in place.  You know that going in....agree or disagree. Like I said, it's like if someone wanted to be a cop but doesn't want to go through the actual "police academy.' Well then don't be a cop, pick another profession. Just because you "WANT" to be something doesn't mean you are entitled to it or get to set up the system and change the rules so it best fits you.

I am not saying that colleges HAVE to pay athletes.  But the fact that they are not allowed to pay them, coupled with athletes not being able to sell their own likeness, coupled with the fact that they are not allowed to work for pay in their field is bullshit and should be against the law.

When the day comes in your fantasy world where colleges have to pay players....you will see the vast majority of schools drop college athletics totally. It will bankrupt schools. You will have a select few very big "state universities" keep having sports. But damn near every private university would drop college athletics and say they don't need the headache. Most college football programs operate in the red now, if they have to pay players on top of that....ha, watch most schools get rid of football and every other sport.  With fewer options for kids to go places let me know how that works out in the best interest of the kids wanting to go to the NFL/NBA.

Big picture people, look at the big picture.

[Dave Gray]

When the day comes in your fantasy world where colleges have to pay players....you will see the vast majority of schools drop college athletics totally. It will bankrupt schools. You will have a select few very big "state universities" keep having sports. But damn near every private university would drop college athletics and say they don't need the headache. Most college football programs operate in the red now, if they have to pay players on top of that....ha, watch most schools get rid of football and every other sport.  With fewer options for kids to go places let me know how that works out in the best interest of the kids wanting to go to the NFL/NBA.

Big picture people, look at the big picture.

You have outlined the argument well, actually.

This may very well happen.  And if you're argument is that paying players is bad for college athletics or that it will ruin the sport or what have you -- I won't argue that.

I'm just saying that it's illegal.  Whether it's for the best or whether or not I support it, it goes against our laws and is discriminatory.  I don't care who gets paid or who doesn't.  We're talking about two different things.

In this country, to have a monopoly and discriminate with age, paired with another monopoly that refuses payment and you can't sell your likeness -- that is against the law.  Bottom line.

[MikeO]

In this country, to have a monopoly and discriminate with age, paired with another monopoly that refuses payment and you can't sell your likeness -- that is against the law.  Bottom line.

It's actually not against the law or else it WOULD be against the law and you would have no games this Saturday....lol

And who is discriminating with age? Seriously, I don't get that

[Phishfan]

Actually some of it is against the law currently. A federal judge has ruled the use of their likeness violates antitrust laws but that schools still do not have to pay athletes. Where that leaves us, I have no idea.

[CF DolFan]

Where do you get that "most college football programs operate in the red now"?  In that last few years I have visited dozens of Div I and II colleges both with and without football. Many of the ones without football are trying to get it because it increases revenue to the schools by donations, tickets, merchandising and student enrollment. In fact football funds most of the other programs that do not generate much money.

[Phishfan]

I'm not sure what level of schools MikeO is describing, but I think he may have mixed up his facts a little. Large Universities are making money in football but losing money through the rest of the athletic department.

This is where the idea of schools raking in millions upon millions is false. The money comes in but also leaves through expenses elsewhere. The latest report I saw showed only about 20 universities (there are over 120 FBS schools) make money through athletics.

[Fau Teixeira]

When the day comes in your fantasy world where colleges have to pay players....you will see the vast majority of schools drop college athletics totally. It will bankrupt schools. You will have a select few very big "state universities" keep having sports. But damn near every private university would drop college athletics and say they don't need the headache. Most college football programs operate in the red now, if they have to pay players on top of that....ha, watch most schools get rid of football and every other sport.  With fewer options for kids to go places let me know how that works out in the best interest of the kids wanting to go to the NFL/NBA.

i'm ok with all of that. Let inter collegiate sports go away .. could not care less.

[MikeO]

i'm ok with all of that. Let inter collegiate sports go away .. could not care less.

You are the exception not the rule. You are in the small minority who feel that way. Fringe stance you have