Gen Z - the choice of a shit generation

[Dave Gray]

Yes, 67 year-old Sharon Stone.

[Spider-Dan]

Baby Boomer Sharon Stone?

Have several seats, please.

[Sibster]

I've read through this thread and I have to agree with DownUnder.  Generation Z is entitled and lazy.   Here's a story I've seen posted on Facebook.  Sadly, I'm getting close to Grandpa Frank's age:



I make $55,000 a year and I’m broker than my 75-year-old grandpa. To save myself from my $1,800-a-month studio apartment, I had to move into his basement.

This wasn't the plan.

The plan was a downtown loft, happy hours, and a vibrant social life funded by my new marketing degree. Instead, I’m in suburban Ohio, sleeping on a 1980s sofa bed in a room that smells like cedar wood and mothballs.

"It's just temporary," I told myself, clutching my artisan iced coffee as I hauled in the last box.

"That stuff costs five bucks?" Grandpa Frank asked from the doorway. He was holding a steaming mug of black instant coffee that looked thick enough to pave a driveway.

"It's $7.50, Gramps," I corrected him. "And it's a small luxury. I worked hard for this job. I deserve a treat."

Frank just grunted. "You 'deserve' to pay off that $40,000 school debt you keep complaining about. I just drink coffee. You drink a car payment."

Living with Frank was like living with a ghost from a history book. A very judgmental history book.

His house was a museum of thrift. There was one television—a small, buzzing box he’d owned since my dad was in high school. He got three channels with an antenna. I had subscriptions to four different streaming services on my laptop, which I paid for by "browsing" more than actually watching.

"Why you paying for all those shows?" he asked one night, squinting at my screen.

"It's choice, Gramps. Options."

"Looks like a waste of time," he said, turning his attention back to the local news.

The real flashpoint was food. On Friday, after a brutal week of spreadsheets, I was exhausted. I didn’t want to cook.  I wanted convenience. I opened my favorite food delivery app and ordered a $28 artisan burger.

When the delivery driver pulled up, Frank was on the porch. He watched me take the bag like I had just committed a felony.

That night, he was eating what he called "Whatever's-Left-Casserole," which appeared to be cut up hot dogs, some barbecue beans, and half an onion, baked. It looked awful. It probably cost $2.

"Must be nice," he muttered, spooning the brown sludge onto his plate. "Eating like royalty."

"It's just one burger, Frank!" I snapped, the stress of my loan payments boiling over. "The economy is terrible! Inflation is insane. I can't even afford rent. You guys had it easy! You bought this whole house on one salary!"

Frank put his fork down. It was the first time I'd seen him look genuinely angry.

"Easy?" he said, his voice dangerously quiet. "I started at the steel mill at 18. I worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week. When inflation was 10% in the 80s, my mortgage rate was 14%. I didn't eat 'artisan' anything. I ate a bologna or a peanut butter sandwich...  those were my choices, EVERY SINGLE DAY."

He pointed at my laptop and smartphone. "You have a $1,500 laptop and a $1100 smartphone.  My phone," he gestured to an ancient flip phone in a cradle by the wall, "makes calls. You got a tattoo sleeve that cost more than my first car. My tattoo?" He rolled up his sleeve to show a faded eagle, globe and anchor. "Got this in the Marines. It came with nightmares, not a payment plan."

I felt my face flush. "So what, I'm just supposed to be miserable?"

"You're not miserable!" he barked. "You're just soft. You kids want the reward without the hard work and discipline. You want a nice house, but you won't give up the $7 coffees. You want financial freedom, but you pay $28 for a burger because you're too 'tired' to open a can of soup or spaghetti o's."

He walked over to his old roll-top desk and pulled out a small, vinyl-bound bank book. He tossed it on the table. It was a old style passbook for his savings account.

I opened it.

The balance made my stomach drop. From his factory pension and social security, this man who lived on canned soup and instant coffee had saved over $280,000.

I looked at the balance. I looked at my phone, still open to the delivery app. I looked at the $9 remaining on my $28 burger.

Frank picked up his plate of leftovers.

"You're right, about one thing Alex," he said, heading to the kitchen. "I did buy this house on one salary.  But I also didn't have 27 subscriptions, leased cars, thousand dollar electronic gadgets, artisian food, or 'emotional support' coffees."

He stopped at the doorway and looked back, his eyes drilling into me.

"You don't have an income problem. You have an expense problem. You’re not poor. You’re just paying a subscription to act rich."

[Spider-Dan]

That story is so obviously fake and written by a get-off-my-lawn boomer that I find it hilarious anyone would read it and take it seriously.
The only thing missing is the avocado toast that all young people devour voraciously.

People from a generation where a single income from a high school graduate was enough to comfortably buy a home, raise multiple kids, go on vacation, afford healthcare, pay for those kids to graduate college with zero debt, and have a decent pension awaiting you at retirement should not really be giving lectures to others about frugal spending.  That house that "75-year-old Grandpa Frank" bought in 1970 for $18,000 is probably worth $700k today.

[Sibster]

That story is so obviously fake and written by a get-off-my-lawn boomer that I find it hilarious anyone would read it and take it seriously.
The only thing missing is the avocado toast that all young people devour voraciously.

People from a generation where a single income from a high school graduate was enough to comfortably buy a home, raise multiple kids, go on vacation, afford healthcare, pay for those kids to graduate college with zero debt, and have a decent pension awaiting you at retirement should not really be giving lectures to others about frugal spending.  That house that "75-year-old Grandpa Frank" bought in 1970 for $18,000 is probably worth $700k today.

"Grandpa Frank" probably never had any vacations other than going to his local pub for a few beers with friends from time to time.   And he probably didn't buy new cars right off the lot either.   And as for his kids going to college, that's never mentioned.   You do see his grandson having over $40k in student loan debt so who knows if his kids had any student debt.

Not to mention that while his house cost maybe $38,000, minimum wage was $2.10 per hour back in the mid 70s.   And like the story said, he didn't have laptops or smartphones.   You wanted to make a phone call, you picked up the phone on the wall, untangled the cord and dialed a number.   And if mom needed to use the phone, you got off the phone.   If everyone wanted burgers for dinner, dad slapped mystery meat on a blackened grill and made burgers.  And we ate them and enjoyed them.     

 

[Sunstroke]

Yessir, as someone who has written for a living, that really does seem like a work of fiction...and I hate avocado toast.

[Spider-Dan]

Grandpa Frank, who got hired at the steel mill at age 18 (but somehow also spent enough time in the Marines to get nightmares? unclear), has never worked a non-union job in his life.  He's never been paid minimum wage, has known a pension was coming to him for his entire career, and doesn't even know what a 401k is.  The 23" color TV he bought in 1969 was a bigger percentage of his yearly salary than his grandson's iPhone 17 and MacBook Air, combined.  Grandpa Frank could be eating boiled cabbage with stovetop rice and drinking tap water, but he prefers hot dog casseroles, PB&J, and instant coffee... not because they're cheap, but because those were the fancy modern foods his mom made when he was a kid, and he still eats them now because he likes them.

[Sunstroke]

...but he prefers hot dog casseroles, PB&J, and instant coffee... not because they're cheap, but because those were the fancy modern foods his mom made when he was a kid, and he still eats them now because he likes them. 

Mmmmmm hot dog casserole.

[pondwater]

Whether that story is fake or not isn't really the point, I've seen and had the same type conversations with people for the past 15-20 years. The point is that when I grew up in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, most people spent their money differently. There were no iPhones, $8 coffees, subscriptions, etc. Not to mention, these days companies have become very adept at extracting money from people in exchange for convenience. Then add in the fact that the education system teaches things of very little practical use to an adult in the real world instead of basic money management and finance.

An $8 coffee five days a week is $40. If you invest that into an S&P 500 or Total Market etf or index fund with an average return of 8-10% you'll have $31K in 10 years. And that's only the coffee, now think of all the other wasteful spending people do these days that didn't exist 30-40 years ago that they could apply that to. Most people could have 6 figures saved up in a decade or so. They choose not to

The real issue is people who can't distinguish between wants vs needs. It's about the emotional weekness of not being able to delay gratification to reach a certain goal, but instead just tell themselves 'I want it and I want it now". Not too unlike a toddler that wants somthing and justifies it by any means available. No, people who complain about their finances while simultaneously spending their money on "wants" only have themselves to blame.

Personally in my lifetime I've noticed that the people that have the nicest things are usually the ones the most in debt and/or living paycheck to paycheck. Around 30 years ago I was friends with a multi millionare for a few years, he told me one thing that I'll never forget. He said, "It's not as much about what you make, it's more about what you spend." And I think Ving Rhames said it best in the movie Baby Boy, it's about guns and butter.

[Spider-Dan]

The point is that when I grew up in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, most people spent their money differently. There were no iPhones, $8 coffees, subscriptions, etc.

Instead, there were color televisions, microwave ovens, drip coffee makers, pay phones, Walkmans, pagers, newspaper subscriptions, food processors, cable TV, VCRs, and charges for long distance calls.

Acting like this is the first generation to have new technology is absurd.

[pondwater]

Instead, there were color televisions, microwave ovens, drip coffee makers, pay phones, Walkmans, pagers, newspaper subscriptions, food processors, cable TV, VCRs, and charges for long distance calls.

Acting like this is the first generation to have new technology is absurd.

What are you talking about? It has nothing to do with technology, it's has to do with simple math. If you allocating too much on consumables rather than assets, then your finances will suffer. And if you choose to do that, that's your own fault. It's incredible to think that this needs in depth explaining.

[Spider-Dan]

You keep implying with no evidence that previous generations abstained from petty wants more than The Youth Of Today, even after I provided you a handy list of petty wants that were commonplace in the '70s, '80s, and '90s.

Every generation can point at something that exists today that didn't exist when they were younger, and blame the younger generations for wasting their money on trivial bullshit they don't NEED.  I'm sure your great-great-grandparents looked at your grandparents' generation and were disgusted that they were wasting money on nonsense like potato chips, soda pop, and vacuum cleaners when previous generations got by just fine without them.

[pondwater]

You keep implying with no evidence that previous generations abstained from petty wants more than The Youth Of Today, even after I provided you a handy list of petty wants that were commonplace in the '70s, '80s, and '90s.

Every generation can point at something that exists today that didn't exist when they were younger, and blame the younger generations for wasting their money on trivial bullshit they don't NEED.  I'm sure your great-great-grandparents looked at your grandparents' generation and were disgusted that they were wasting money on nonsense like potato chips, soda pop, and vacuum cleaners when previous generations got by just fine without them.

I think we're discussing two different things. I can agree that emotionally weak people have always existed and wasted money to soothe their fragile egos. However, currently there is a widespread trend of people wasting their money and then complaining and blaming others because they can't afford things they need. It's has gotten much worse in the past 20-25 years.

Fully functioning intelligent adults understand that you cannot waste money on a daily basis and come out ahead. Do you want to spend your money freely and have all your daily comforts and convieniences? Or would you rather save most of that money and make it grow over time?  It really just comes down to choices. And choices lead to outcomes. Either way is fine as long as you realize that it's a choice that you're making and that's on you.

It really boils down to lack of disipline and consistency. You can't eat donuts all day and lose weight. You can't get better at playing guitar if you choose to drink and nap instead of practicing. And you can't achieve finacial goals if you choose to waste your money. Anyhow, we'll just agree to disagree. Have a great afternoon

[Spider-Dan]

There are more people complaining about things they can't afford because things are far more unaffordable now.  And I'm not talking about frivolous cravings; I mean basic fundamentals like housing, education, healthcare, and retirement.  50 years ago, a family with a single income from a high school graduate could comfortably afford all those things and more.  Now, that thought is almost laughable.

So I have very little patience for the Grandpa Franks of the world lecturing their grandchildren about wasting money on a Netflix subscription, when Grandpa Frank hasn't gone a week without watching ESPN (on his cable TV service) since Reagan was in office.

[Sibster]

There are more people complaining about things they can't afford because things are far more unaffordable now.  And I'm not talking about frivolous cravings; I mean basic fundamentals like housing, education, healthcare, and retirement.  50 years ago, a family with a single income from a high school graduate could comfortably afford all those things and more.  Now, that thought is almost laughable.

So I have very little patience for the Grandpa Franks of the world lecturing their grandchildren about wasting money on a Netflix subscription, when Grandpa Frank hasn't gone a week without watching ESPN (on his cable TV service) since Reagan was in office.

Read the story again.   Grandpa Frank didn't have cable TV, nor did he go out to eat very often, let alone have food delivered.   And while a Netflix subscription is one thing, it can add up when combined with subscriptions to Hulu, YouTube, Amazon Prime, Disney Plus, Paramount Plus, Peacock, Discovery, shall I go on?