RIP Pope Francis

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

He was a good man and a good leader. While I didn't agree with all his stances, he was leading his flock in the right direction.  I hope his successor continues his legacy.

[Spider-Dan]

Agreed.

Pope Francis was one of the few major religious leaders of my lifetime that seemed to prioritize helping the needy and poor over punishing sinners.
It is more and more rare to find a self-proclaimed Christian who tries to live up to the more admirable teachings of Jesus, but Francis was one of the few.

[CF DolFan]

Agreed.

Pope Francis was one of the few major religious leaders of my lifetime that seemed to prioritize helping the needy and poor over punishing sinners.
It is more and more rare to find a self-proclaimed Christian who tries to live up to the more admirable teachings of Jesus, but Francis was one of the few.

Who are these religious leaders punishing sinners? This I've got to see. Is this something I can volunteer for?  I can actually use a whip. Hahaha

I love non Christians pretending to know Jesus better than the people who spend everyday reading or meditating on the word. What you meant to say is that he is one of the few "religious leaders" who fits into the box Spider has created for himself.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

 better than the people who spend everyday reading or meditating on the word.

If you read the new testament once you will easily conclude the Jesus would fully support giving children free lunches in school.  It takes thousands of hours of difficult distortion of his message to conclude that Jesus would want to eliminate all handouts to the poor.

That is why us non-Christian feel we understand Jesus better than so called Christians,  we take Jesus's message about helping the poor and forgiving sinners at face value, we don't spend hours looking for ways to distort it. 

As a non-Christian when I read Matthew 25:25–36, it is obvious to me that Jesus would be pro-immigrant.  However, only through many hours of distorting and reconstructing the teaching of Jesus can you conclude he would have wanted a wall on the Mexican border. 

[Spider-Dan]

CF, it is incredibly appropriate that, among questions of whether self-avowed "Christians" are living up to their values, your go-to retort is not, "Look at how much I've volunteered and helped others in my community," but rather, "Look at how much more I read the Bible than you."  Absolutely flawless, sir.  And this works perfectly for exactly the sort of "Christians" I was referencing: they can use their superior command of Scripture to justify whatever new injustice they are perpetrating.

But this is nothing new.  And this is evident in your idea of conservative Christian values:

Conservatives want to lead people to help themselves. In Florida we have Hope Florida which directs people in need to charities that can help them. Today they have helped over 30,000 people get off the Florida welfare system and it's only been around for a few years.

Your hand-picked example is an organization that you cite not for how many hungry people they have helped feed, or housing that they have helped people find, or even jobs that they've helped people get.  No, no... the "help" that they have provided people is getting them off of the government dole.  That's the only type of help you approve of: helping them stop taking taxpayer money.  This is your idea of being a good Christian.

[Downunder Dolphan]

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He was a good man and a good leader. While I didn't agree with all his stances, he was leading his flock in the right direction.  I hope his successor continues his legacy.

Agreed. He was a humble man who prioritized helping the weak and needy, and made a point of being of service to others and not himself.

[Sibster]

CF, it is incredibly appropriate that, among questions of whether self-avowed "Christians" are living up to their values, your go-to retort is not, "Look at how much I've volunteered and helped others in my community," but rather, "Look at how much more I read the Bible than you."  Absolutely flawless, sir.  And this works perfectly for exactly the sort of "Christians" I was referencing: they can use their superior command of Scripture to justify whatever new injustice they are perpetrating.

But this is nothing new.  And this is evident in your idea of conservative Christian values:
Your hand-picked example is an organization that you cite not for how many hungry people they have helped feed, or housing that they have helped people find, or even jobs that they've helped people get.  No, no... the "help" that they have provided people is getting them off of the government dole.  That's the only type of help you approve of: helping them stop taking taxpayer money.  This is your idea of being a good Christian.

Once again, like CF said, it has to fit a box you created for yourself or it's no good.   The whole point of the Bible is people being charitable and having a willingness to give and help others in the community.   The big difference is, some governments force you to do it.   That's not Christianity.  That's SOCIALISM.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Once again, like CF said, it has to fit a box you created for yourself or it's no good.   The whole point of the Bible is people being charitable and having a willingness to give and help others in the community.   The big difference is, some governments force you to do it.   That's not Christianity.  That's SOCIALISM.

Any honest reading of the New Testament would conclude that Jesus would be a strong proponent of social welfare programs.  There is zero evidence to suggest that he would have opposed the Roman government aiding the poor.   

[CF DolFan]

If you read the new testament once you will easily conclude the Jesus would fully support giving children free lunches in school.  It takes thousands of hours of difficult distortion of his message to conclude that Jesus would want to eliminate all handouts to the poor.

That is why us non-Christian feel we understand Jesus better than so called Christians,  we take Jesus's message about helping the poor and forgiving sinners at face value, we don't spend hours looking for ways to distort it. 

As a non-Christian when I read Matthew 25:25–36, it is obvious to me that Jesus would be pro-immigrant.  However, only through many hours of distorting and reconstructing the teaching of Jesus can you conclude he would have wanted a wall on the Mexican border. 

In Matthew 25, Jesus speaks through parables and teachings about the importance of being prepared for his return and the need to be compassionate and serve others. I have no issue with giving needy children free lunches. In fact, I was one of those kids growing up as was a lot of us Republicans who worked ourselves out of the lower class.

But I've read the whole Bible and no where does He call for the ":government" to provide handouts. In fact, he says to “give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”.  This means he is calling for his church (God's people) to provide for what they can.  He also says "The poor you will always have with you". Paul also said in 2 Thessalonians "If a man will not work, he shall not eat.". Other verses say similar things which to me is saying that handouts are not to be just given willy nilly.

By the way  ... this is exactly what Hope Florida is doing. Taking away the responsibility from the government and helping the people take care of themsleves.

[SCFinfan]

Pope Francis was a really humble, decent man. He will be missed.

RIP, Papa Franciscus.

[Sibster]

Any honest reading of the New Testament would conclude that Jesus would be a strong proponent of social welfare programs.  There is zero evidence to suggest that he would have opposed the Roman government aiding the poor.   

1.  The Roman government did not aid the poor.   In fact, it taxed the poor heavily.

2.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the government is to provide for the poor.   Matter of fact, it says both in the Old and New Testament that if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat.

[Spider-Dan]

Again, the impressive thing about Pope Francis was that he didn't subscribe to this anti-poor "just give them some bootstraps" mindset that the loudest Christians in America are devoted to.

[Pappy13]

Agreed. He was a humble man who prioritized helping the weak and needy, and made a point of being of service to others and not himself.

Don't undersell his stance on LGBTQ either. No, he still wasn't ready for priests to start marrying them but at least he started to accept them which is a 180 from past history.

[Pappy13]

2.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the government is to provide for the poor.   Matter of fact, it says both in the Old and New Testament that if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat.

I hope you're not suggesting that the poor is made up of non working people because that doesn't seem to be the case at all. There are those that don't work and some of them are poor for sure, but in my humble opinion the poor overall tend to be the hardest working people you will find. I think your rationale may need some work.

[Spider-Dan]

In our society, the people who make the least money almost always do the most labor, and the more money you make, the less you physically work.

All this "poor people just don't want to work" talk is not only wrong, it's the opposite of the truth: it is rich people who do not want to work.  They feel entitled to profit off of others' work.