The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_seasonticket/2008/04/fins-parcells-v.html?cid=112749102#comment-112749102

  Who's side are you on?

Fins: Parcells v. Taylor (You choose)

As first appeared first in my Friday column, and Dave Hyde repeated in his Saturday column, Jason Taylor received an extremely chilly reception from the front office when he returned to the Dolphins facility more than two weeks ago. I wrote generally, and should have written more specifically, and used all the detail that I knew. Now that detail has come out. All of it fits the account that I'd heard.

To recap: Taylor's teammates greeted him warmly in the weight room. As Chris Mortensen said on ESPN, Taylor popped in to say hello to Parcells, Jeff Ireland and company, and made a joke about them looking at other defensive ends. No one acknowledged him. Then Tony Sparano tracked Taylor down before Taylor left, and told him that while he was out dancing in L.A., his teammates were working hard in the facility. Taylor, who had been hoping for a quiet, mutually beneficial resolution to his situation, was seriously dismayed by the reception.

After all, as I mentioned last Friday, he has had only one conversation with Parcells since the latter took the job as VP of Football Operations. It was cordial, but didn't set any records for length.

Parcells simply asked Taylor what he had left in the tank.

Parcells is a button-pusher, but there was no way that would work on Taylor. If Parcells had taken over three years ago, he and Taylor might have actually hit it off. But Taylor has endured too much frustration here, due to Parcells' predecessors. It's not Parcells' fault, but it's too late. This just isn't a good fit.

And since H. Wayne Huizenga promised Taylor last year that he would accommodate a desire to leave -- and Taylor wasn't traded in part because of the giant mechanical robot roaming London -- it's up to Huizenga to resolve the situation somehow.

Pressuring Huizenga is a preferable strategy to going Chad Johnson, which is not Taylor's style.

But now, as more details trickle out nationally, that becomes even more difficult. 

We've discussed this on a bunch of blogs, but I created this entry to give you a forum to debate it on one. There seems to be some split opinion.

If you take a side -- and you may not want to -- whose side do you take? 

Parcells?

Or Taylor?

> Posted by Ethan J. Skolnick at 5:36:45 PM

Taylor's.  After all he has given this team, if he wants out, they should let him out.

No one loves him more then me. But this is a business. And we finally have someone that knows how to run a Football Team. Sorry..........Parcells has my Trust in handling all matters because I'm sick of losing. He's not there to make friends , he's there to building a winning franchise again. 

  I'm siding with Bill Parcells.  Bill Parcells needs to do what is in the best interest of the Miami Dolphins, not what's in the best interest of Jason Taylor.  Bill isn't here to play nice and kiss Jason Taylor's ass.  It's his way, or the highway. 

Let me tell you something - Jason Taylor and his primadonna attitude that he's had over the last 10 years here in Miami better shut his mouth and stop dancing like an idiot. Parcells has NO PROBLEM benching him for the whole season, making his value diminish extensively to any other team. Parcells is not the person you want to be getting an attitude with - just shut your face and play ball. Who the hell is jason taylor anyways? What the hell has he ever done but be on a crappy-ass team for all these years?  Where is his rings and conference titles?

Jason Taylor - shut your mouth (again).

I always side with management.  You're paid to do a job -- do it.

Taylor.

BP can do whatever he wants, but you don't have to be a dick about it. JT needs to prove himself to no one.

  Perhaps we should add a poll.  Mods?

I'm siding with taylor. Parcells pulled this bullshit in dallas when he gave emmitt smith the cold shoulder. Taylor dosen't owe  bill parcells and this regime nothing. Taylor knows they have no intention of keeping him so he's doing everything he can to ensure his future after football. Parcells is a lying, manipulating SOB. This is the offseason, why should taylor have to show up for offseason workouts? Why hasn't parcells reached out to taylor? Parcells needs to realize he's accomplished nothing in this town and he can't treat a guy who's a dolphin legend like a POS.

If parcells want to be coldblooded i have no problem with the player making life miserable for parcells. Also, if he retires from the dolphins they dont get the cap relief until he signs the papers. The way he's being treated do you think he's going to be in a hurry to sign them.

Parcells has ALWAYS looked out for his best intrest, so i have no problem with JT looking out for his.

i'm going with taylor here, gocowboys is right.  parcells thinks he can just come in here and not respect the legacy and history of the franchise (which taylor is going to be a huge part of).  don't burn your bridges just because you think you're the big bad man now.  JT is our most popular player, and one of the NFL's few true franchise players.  plus, he still plays at an elite level.  fuck you fat tuna, i've liked everything you've done so far, but NO WAY do i condone this.

I'm Taking Parcells for this reason (the reason stated on PTI) Jason Taylor signed up to do Dancing with the stars,prior to the Parcells hiring...Jason wanted out last year...As a team leader act like it...

i'm on parcell's side .. JT is paid 8 mil a year to shut his trap and play football

show up .. do your job and when your contract is up .. do whatever you want

JT. Parcell's is being stupid about this. JT is the best player on this team. Throughout his career he has shown up, been in shape, and down his job while keeping his mouth shut. Parcells could really turn this into a big, dangerous thing.

Parcells is my vote, with zero hesitation.


Except for now, of course... JT's not here doing his job now, he's working on his next career out in Hollywood. He's not keeping his mouth shut now either, he's talking about wanting out of Miami.

Parcells will always be two things...

1) A great football mind
2) Rude and a little disrespectful to others

Expecting Parcells to be anything other than those two things is like asking Butterbean to slip into Twiggy's clothes...it just isn't going to fit.

Doesn't really matter whose side you are on... if the Dolphins don't trade Taylor, they lose.

Taylor could get the Dolphins a round one draft spot or more if traded. 

He won't help the team much if he sits out the season or if he reports but spend the entire season being a menace.  Parcells needs more than just good players, he needs team chemistry.  If Shockey hadn't gotten injured, the Patriots would have played the Cowboys or Packers in SB.  Shockey is a great TE, but his absence made the team better. 

Having the "leader" of the defense being a cancer won't help the Dolphins. 

But in this case, Taylor's "Job" is to be in the "voluntary" offseason conditioning programm, which begs two questions:
1- If it's "Voluntary", then why be upset if Taylor's not there?  You want everyone there?  Make it compulsory.
2 - Does Jason Taylor LOOK out of shape to anyone watching (sad to say, the wife loves this crap)?  He looks like he could run laps around most NFL guys right now.

Hands down Taylor. There is no reason for Parcells to be a dick to JT- he has given everything to the Dolphins- and is the biggest part of this team and Parcells wants to be an ass to him? I heard that when Jason came in Parcell just ignored him- that's just ridiculous. And DWTS is going on in the offseason- JT can do whatever he wants in the offseason, whether it be dancing- or sailing around the world. It's his time, and can do with it what he pleases.

  People wanted Bill Parcells.  Guess what?  You got Bill Parcells.  Parcells doesn't give a crap about who you are, what you've done, and how long you've been with a franchise.  The minute your extracurricular activities interfere with his offseason program, you're immediately on Parcells shit list.  Bill Parcells expects his team leaders to be in the offseason program, in the weight room and on the practice field setting the example for the younger guys.  Too see that the so-called face of the Miami Dolphins has traded in his offseason workouts for some stupid dancing show, probably makes him that much more angrier.  Parcells, Ireland, and Coach Sparano are trying to instill a new culture in Miami, and the fact that Jason is "doing the cha-cha like a sissy girl" in Hollywood is not helping the transition.

  Parcells will push your buttons, get under your skin, play mind games, and will do whatever he has to, in order to make an example out of someone.  Quite honestly, after the past year and a half Jason Taylor needs some humbling.  It seems like he's getting too big for his britches.  Let's take a look at the timeline.

- End of 2006 season, Jason starts talking about "retirement."

- The whole Trent Green "scrambled eggs" remark was out of line and completely uncalled for.  While Trent may have gone on to taking another season-ending concussion, the fact of the matter is you don't speak that way about a new teammate.  Jason is the leader of the lockerroom, he should've shown a little more class than that. 

- Criticizing the selection of Ted Ginn Jr.  While most of us crticized the selection, Jason should've kept his mouth shut.  It's not the kid's fault that he got drafted.  Bring up your issues with management in private, but don't do it in an interview with Sports Illustrated.  You're not the GM, shut your piehole.  Besides, Ted was arguably the best receiver on the team last year.

- Jason Taylor was the one that instigated the mutiny against Cam Cameron towards the end of last season.  Say what you want about Cam Cameron, but the "face of the franchise" is supposed to be the one that holds the team together in the most turbulent times.  To me, that reveals a lot about his character and his ability as a leader.  Jason should've quelled the uprising, not start it. He pretty much let Joey Porter rip into Cameron in front of the entire team and stood by and did absolutely nothing as it was happening.

- Now, he's Dancing With The Stars.  Need I say more?

  I appreciate what Jason has done on the football field in his 11 seasons as a Miami Dolphin, and his charitable work in the South Florida community is commendable.  However, his character and his desire as of late has seriously come into question.  Maybe it's because of the all the ineptitude that he's had to deal with since being here.  However, should Jason really be shocked and incensed that Parcells ignored him?  It's not like Bill owes him anything, and he doesn't. 

Obviously not...the best offer they got during the draft was a pair of third rounders, one of which was in next year's draft. That's the only reason JT is still a Dolphin, Miami couldn't get any real value.

the cha cha involves extreme conditioning
adn he started/signed up before before tuna came along.
he's also the face of the league right now like it or not, and its not in a pacman or chad jonhson type a way.
a reputable, marketable player.

and?
that was before he became a teammate, and lol, he was dead right wasn't he?
he was still awful. being the best in a group of incompetent players doesnt make you any special. he dropped passes and found it hard to break open despite a good running game from brown.

cameron was the wrong choice from day one im glad to see him gone... why fight for something you don't believe in. Jason wants to win more then anything. Losing the final game to Patriots six seasons ago to miss the playoffs brought him to tears. he's a winner.
hmph.

Can I get back the 30-something seconds it took me to read the last post?

  You know, speaking of that.  While Jason does get most of his workouts through dancing, he has also hired two other personal trainers while out in Hollywood.  I've actually been able to obtain video footage of the type of workouts they put Jason through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYHFt15Z5Us

Dolfan 619 hit it right on the head. A lot of people talk about how the Fins should keep JT because they need a veteran presence to be an example for the younger players. What kind of example is he setting by blatantly ignoring the offseason conditioning program?

because its VOLUNTARY!  if ur gonna be pissed people aren't there, make it mandatory.  it's kinda like coughlin's stupid 5-minute early rule

I think the NFL players union rules prohibit teams from making it compulsory.

J.T has played his ass off here,and carried himself with class,the guy is ALWAYS in shape,ALWAYS plays hard,and has ALWAYS been a team leader.Tony Soprano and Tuna need to knock off the sgt. bilko crap,this is a veteran all pro defensive end--worthy of the benefit of the doubt.Not some fat ass vet like traylor or some self promoting a-hole like porter,this is Jason Taylor....a guy that is not only the heart and soul of the team,but a guy that I wish other pro athletes were like.Trust me coach,when the season starts you're gonna be glad you don't have to play against this guy.

Taylor is GREAT . I Love him.  But he is one man and his time with us is almost done. How he handles him will have a great impact on the rookies. No special treatment for anyone.

I am not siding with Parcells in terms of Jason Taylor not going to the optional practice.  (But that's just semantics.  It's mandatory, they just can't get their lawyers to make that the case.)

Taylor can do what he wants.
But so can Parcells.

I don't really like when players demand a trade and try to tell their bosses what is what, regardless of how long you're been around or what you've done in the past.  A coach can't show weakness to his players, and this team is a whole lot bigger than one man's needs.

I hope they can work it out.

I hope so too.....otherwise Taylor will become what he once despised..... a locker room cancer.

  BUMP.  Due to today's latest news involving Taylor.

Right.  "Play football."  What games has he missed? 

If he plays like crap then we can all second guess his decision and claim that missing off-season work outs 3 months before training camp really hurt his ability.

99 times out of 100 I'd side with management, but you don't treat your best producing employee this way. 

Exactly, RTW.  He's missed no games.  Hell, he's missed nothing mandatory yet! 

I have to take JT's side on this. He has been one of the few consistent players on our roster.Some people have said he needs to shut his mouth and get in voluntary work outs.The way I see it he has shown nothing but class.Parcels started off saying Jason would be a dolphin unless he retired,then he put him out looking for a trade, then he started leaking to the press that he was dissatisfied with Jason for not being in voluntary practice.Does he hold a press conference and start putting down the new regime ??? No. He says they have not spoken to me. I took that to mean if you have a problem with me, call me lets talk. So then Tony holds a press conference saying Jason wont be attending any workouts . Lets not forget parcels is not the first football god brought in to help us.JJ was supposed to do the same thing remember how that turned out.I have to wonder how many people would think he was wrong about voluntary workouts if when they showed up at work and found a memo that said mon thru fri is mandatory but we want you to voluntarily work Saturday's. Oh and if you don't we will give your parking place and office to somebody else.There is a reason they cant force them to work year round.I have no doubt that when the season starts Jason will be ready,unfortunately "thanks to bill"He may be wearing different colors.

Fact Number 1:   Jason Taylor had been struggling with the decision to retire even before the start of last year.

Fact Number 2:   Most of you guys are saying "Honor the contract", Honor the contract. There are no such things as "contracts" in the National Football League' They are in essence known as "tenders" which means that for any reason, your tender can be altered, cancelled or changed by management. Players get guaranteed money in some cases and incentives (which they may not ever reach).

Football players are really "contractors" not employees. They are Form W-9 contractors and the W-9 is handled by agents. They are NOT on the Miami Dolphins corporate payroll but are listed as "contractors". If they are cut or waived, they don't get unemployment. Any of you that run a business or have ever had a business knows that it's a huge difference between a listed contractor or vendor that you have a business relationship with or an employee that's on your payroll. The agent of entity known as the football player are responsible for reporting their own taxes, etc.



Fact Number 3:  I agree with Warren Sapp. The NFL IS a slave system and we are too blind to see it. I'm talking about for all athletes, black and white. You don't have many owners who care about the players. Parcells caring about players is the biggest crock that I've ever heard of. He cares about them from the standpoint of using them until they can't do anything anymore and discards them.

Look at the NFL combine, they measure the size of a players tendon, examine their anatomy, strip them naked and prod and poke them like animals. Do most of you realized that this kind of inspection happened when slaves were being traded? The only difference is that the auction block is replaced by the draft board.

And again, none of this measures the heart and desire of a player. If that was the case, Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas would have been first round picks.

Fact Number 4:  Bill Parcells as a great football mind? Sorry. That title goes to Bill Walsh or Vince Lombardi. Parcells isn't even in Walsh zip code or Lombardi's neighborhood. Everywhere Parcells has gone, when he has left, it has always been under a cloud of controversy.

I get tired of all these news outlets rolling out players who pretty much kiss Parcells ass on television (Simms, Keyshawn, etc) but the truth is that players hate him. You never see Harry Carson, Leonard Marshall or even Lawrence Taylor come out and always kiss this mans' ass. It's because they knew the real reason behind the success of Parcells is the coaches that he would never let talk to the public because in essence, Parcells SUCKS at X's and O's. If you want to talk about the defenses that Parcells had you can't do it without mentioning the genius of that guy up in New England.

Fact Number 5:  These OTA days are voluntary. This is a crock. The NFLPA and Gene Upshaw should just say, hey, it's a mini-mini training camp but Upshaw kisses the leagues ass on many issues.

Fact Number 6: Wayne H. doesn't care. He's on his way out. He should have stepped in and diffused this. I don't hear a lot of you guys talking about the community work that Taylor or even Zach Thomas has done. At least Taylor has been VERY visible in the community, trying to follow in Dan Marino's lead. No, but that doesn't count.

Another great Huizenga leadership moment and this guy has a business program named after him at Nova University?

Fact Number 7:   I'd retire if I was Taylor.  Taylor last year, SAVED THE DOLPHINS from going 0-16 by blocking Stovers kick, having the sense to call time out before the Stover miss and sacked Boller on a critical drive but yet he's selfish?

Here's a guy that showed up every game last year playing with a torn tendon in his foot and he's selfish? Do you know how painful it is to walk on a torn tendon on the bottom of your foot. Did Taylor miss a game? NO!

Fact Number 8:  Wayne has did the impossible. He has alienated the Miami Dolphin fan based and turned Dolphin fans to finding another "home" team. From 1994 to the present, Wayne has totally proved that money is more than anything else. Dumb coaching moves, questionable ticket raises, bad strategic and football management and now, the desperados that are so foreign to the Dolphin community that they don't care about the fans.

Fact Number 9:  Tony Sparano is a "puppet". Remember, like that guy last year, Sparano has NO HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE. He doesn't even come close to Hudson Houck who is know in NFL circles for turning linemen into Hall Of Famers. You guys thought that Nick Saban was bad? Parcells is the absolute dictator. In Dallas, it was Sean Payton calling the plays not Sparano.

Fact Number 10:  Last but not least, I understand wanting to have a winning football team but you don't alienate fans and the community. The Green Bay Packers organization tell coaches and employees that the one thing that they must remember is that they have to have the ability to integrate with the fans. I met the late Joe Robbie and that's something that he believed in regardless of what the teams record was.

You guys will see that Parcells will be more of a problem instead of the solution. Miami should have brought in Floyd Reese.

Retire Jason, ^&*& the Super Bowl. It has become overrated anyway in a league in which you can buy or cheat your way to a title.

I'll reiterate my previous statements:

Loyalty is a two-way street.  Management showed zero loyalty to Zach Thomas, JT's brother-in-law and career-long multiple-Pro Bowl teammate.  Why the hell should he bend over backwards to accommodate them?

JT tries to participate in an event that can help him greatly in his (fast approaching) post-football life, completely during CBA-mandated voluntary camps, and the coaches give him the cold shoulder.  Then he quietly and respectfully asks for a trade behind closed doors (instead of shouting to the media like any number of cancerous WRs), with plenty of advance notice for them to acquire replacement talent in free agency and the draft, and they ignore it.  This is supposed to engender loyalty to the team?

People talk about honoring contracts; Taylor has the contractual right to hold out for up to 10 regular season games.  This is a right that was negotiated and fought for.  In EXACTLY the same way that under the Collective Bargaining Agreement, management has the right to cut any player at any time, any player also has the right to hold out.

Please try to be consistent when you criticize players for "not living up to their contracts."

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2008/05/taylor-drama-no.html

Taylor drama not as bad as I thought it would be

After discussing Wednesday's statement by Tony Sparano about Jason Taylor with representatives for BOTH sides, I asked myself this question: Why don't I get a real job?

No, actually I asked myself, 'What has changed?'

The answer is very little. We now know beyond a shadow of doubt that there is a rift between Jason Taylor and the Dolphins. Big deal. Been saying that since March. There's a fracture, people.

The bottom line is the Dolphins, I am told, are actively trying to trade Taylor. And Taylor is actively seeking roles and opportunities in Hollywood. Chances are pretty solid Taylor will not play for the Dolphins in 2008.

But that is not absolute. Taylor still has not publicly ripped the Dolphins. And today's announcement -- contrary to the crazy pundits crying that it is a slam -- did not publicly rip Taylor. Sparano's statement simply stated a fact that Taylor's camp had made known to the Dolphins.

So this is simply business being played out in the public light. I got no problems with it because, frankly, I expected much, much worse. Notice no one is PUBLICLY ripping the other side. If that happens, then we can say it has gotten ugly. But not until then.

Hey ethurst...there is alot of stuff there you taking saying fact but are your opinions....I wish I could get my 2 minutes back after reading this....


Yeah they are such slaves  ::),Jason's contract for this year is more than some poeple will make in a life time....


That's your opinion,he's known for spotting good talent and getting the most out of them...

I don't remember jason Blocking a kick against the Ravens last year,I remember Stover just plain missing one though....I remember Jason playing Te and dropping a TD pass.....

You're not Jason taylor,so Where's the fact? Last time I checked....


The foot was 2 years ago not last year....and has nothing to do with His future....

Wayne promised  not to meddle, and Gave Parcells Full control....

I agree SpiderDan. He didn't go out like Chad Johnson and whine about it. He has tried to handle this whole issue with class.

The Dolphins and the NFL dropped the ball on this one. With all the player trouble that they've been having off the field (especially the Dolphins with this new Will Allen situation) they could have used the publicity as a springboard to show NFL Players in a good light.

Do you know that eight million dollars isn't anything? The Fed is printing conterfeit money and hasn't got caught yet.

Bill Parcells is overrated as far as talent evaluation. No one ever talks about the GM's who really made the choices (I did a thread on that last week). I outlined every GM and personnal person that Parcells worked with from his days with the Giants to the Cowboys, I'll find the link for you. I think I started it.

The NFL is a SLAVE system. There are very few guys making any type of money at all and their "contracts" are subject to be terminated. The NFL is the richest league in the whole world. Think of that. Owners make outrageous types of bread from a host of other league concessions voted on at the owners meeting. The owners run the plantation. There is blacklisting, life threats and bodily harm to players that don't conform to the "system". NFL Security is to protect the owners and not the players. You don't see NFL Security going after the owners unless they are  like Eddie DeBartalo of the 49ers and he was caught putting extra cash incentives into players contracts because he felt like they deserved it.

What if Taylor would not have called timeout to freeze Stover? Who knows but at least, he had his head in the game. More than I can say for Cam Cameron.

Most of you will see the true colors that Parcells is. And c'mon. You can't miss in the draft and free agency when the team NEEDS everything. It's more harder to tweak a team that has a few holes or who are just a couple of players away than it is to have needs for everything.

Anything that Wayne H. does with the Dolphins NEVER works! Sometimes, I think that Wayne H. went to Egypt and dug up the corpse of Imothep and we've been having bad luck ever since.

bottom line is, on a 1-15 team, everyone's expendable .. if not having JT in the lineup causes us to go 5-11 instead of 7-9 then all that means is that we'll have a better draft pick for the following year.

If the dolphins are trying to trade him and no-one bites, then it behooves the team to play hardball with taylor.. they gain nothing from cutting him .. if he doesn't show up to mandatory camps and sits out games, then the team can fine him his salary for his non-participation.

The dolphins gain absolutely nothing from releasing JT .. they would be better off if he filed retirement papers with the league, then cutting him and having him sign with the Patriots or Colts.

If a team really wants him, then they should pony up in a trade.

I think SPI are playing this situation the proper way. JT doesn't owe anything to the new management team or to the dolphins .. and the new management team or the dolphins .. don't owe anything to JT ..

People might say that "JT played his heart out" .. and he got paid to do so .. "he stuck with the dolphins when they were losing" .. and he also got paid to do so.. unless a check bounced somewhere .. the dolphins don't owe JT crap

and as far as the NFL is "slavery" comment... slavery all the way to the bank

The dolphins gain absolutely nothing from releasing JT .. they would be better off if he filed retirement papers with the league, then cutting him and having him sign with the Patriots or Colts.

So then the press is correct, Parcels dosent backstep. He said from the beggining his only way out is retirement.Lets start the rumor Huzinga set JT up with hollywood if he would humbly go away.

Amen Fau...


Wow How the hell do I ever get by on $26,000 a year?....Again 8 million is more than some people will make in their entire life of working......

Hey bro just putcha over the top, were tied at 12 before. Go off to Jags, Rams, or Bucs

Thanks for bumping this thread Dolfan619. 

And Philly.  I do apologize for starting that other one.  I completely forgot about it.  Although next time, please delete it and PM me rather than lock it. 

I take exception with your comparison between consent adults choosing to participate in the combine, knowing full well that they will measured and evaluated with the possibility of being offered millions of dollars to play a child's game and one of the two most horrible atrocities committed by this country (the other being genocide of the indigous peoples)

Slaves did not elect to be auctioned.  One must fill out paperwork to be drafted.

Slaves did not get to keep the money paid at auction, their kidnappers did.  Football players are paid quite nicely.

Football players can retire at any time, slaves worked until their death.  Football players have a great health care system, slaves had none.  Slaves did not get paid, football players are very rich.  No football player has starved to death.  No football player has died on the bus or plane ride to the combine.  An untold number of slaves died during the middle passage. 

There may be flaws in the CBA.  But to compare slavery to football is down right lunacy.  It trivializes a significant and horrible period in our history.   

I totally agree.  The similarities are too numerous to count.  For example, slaves breathed air and *gasp* NFL players breath air.  Slaves drank water and *gasp* NFL players drink water.  SHOCKING!!!

 ::)

Warren Sapp is, has always been, and will always be, an idiot.  The media loves him because he can't shut his pie hole and there's not a lot of intelligent thought behind what comes out of it.  What a blatant misuse of the word "slave".  Way to cheapen and diminish the attrocities of slavery.  What was he smoking when he came up that analogy?

The players CHOOSE to participate and can choose to stop participating at any time. 

The median salary last season was roughly $770,000.  The average (mean) was $1.4 million.

The minimum salary for a rookie is $285,000.

newsflash, the dolphins were 1-15 last year. not a very good TEAM. 1 lousy win in the nfl over 16 games is an indication of some very deep rooted TEAM problems. the OTA workouts are the first chance in trying to rebuild this dolphins TEAM from the ground up. veteran TEAM leaders, should be there in the trenches helping to rebuild this TEAM.

was watching old films on nfl network about biggest comebacks... they had shula when he first came to the fins, running offseason practice. you could see shula instilling piece by piece his character in every drill, exercise, etc... that the players were running. he had to transform every bit of pre-wiring of the old loser dolphins to a champion mentality.

this isn't about a single player being in shape or not. this is about transforming a TEAM that has suddenly become used to losing, into one that learns to win as a TEAM. jt isn't interested in that, so good luck in your new career acting.

If the majority of owners weren't white would anyone make the slavery analogy?  I doubt it.

Sign me up.  They can poke, prod and do whatever else they want to me for that kind of cake.

I really do not care.  Its May.  Come see me in Aug. & I still will not care.  Someone will be lining up play LDE or OLB for Miami.

Taylor is the last link to a losing heritage in Miami.  Frankly I'd like to see a new era start & the only way is to rid yourself of links to old ones..

 Nothing personal against Taylor, I like him & this stuff changes nothing.  Its a business move by him, just as Miami cut Zach as a business move. 

How can you trivialize something when it still exists but exist in a different form? The only difference is that it's psychological and includes EVERYBODY. What the hell do you mean no comparison? It is what it is.

Believe it or not, even your average "White man" has to deal with bullshit in the form of psychological control from different angles, hence the term "Angry White Man".

I know several NFL players that object to the way players really are treated. LIKE DAMN OBJECTS! Listen to some of the comments on this board. Damn what Jason Taylor does off the field, just have your ass on the field. No insight or other angles included. No regard for what the guy has done for 11 years through some horrible regimes and if it appears that he says something controversial, he's OUT OF LINE.

The guys handsome, has talent and is pursuing other avenues. In other words, he's  is out of his place and it's a valid point and you know it. 11 years of training camps, playing hurt (getting shot up with drugs to play regardless of whether you think players have a say so or not), dealing with crappy coaches and a crappy owner and he's looking at life after football and the "regime" is playing hardball? He requested a trade right after the season and the "regime" is holding him and that's not slavery to you? They half-assed made an attempt to deal him? He could have been dealt by now with many teams needing an impact defensive end.

How would you like to have somebody poke, prod and psychologically manipulate you and when does money deem that you're not a slave? I know rich people who are in more bondage than a homeless person. Let me ask you something, what do you think the NFL combine is for?

And basically, you don't know a damn thing about slavery other than what the US History books told you. Let me give it to you as an AFRICAN-AMERICAN. This shit is in a different form still exists today. It exist in sports and in corporations all over America but this is psychological and spiritual not physical. This damn country hasn't changed a bit. The only difference is that it touches all, black or white.

That's the problem with this country. People think that the amount of money that you make equals success.
You're telling me that the NFL in some parts doesn't resemble a slave system? What about these guys that pioneered the game that can't get benefits from the NFL now. Some are living on the streets because their pension didn't cover things. You could say that some squandered their money, fine but most didn't have an adequate pension and did go back into the workforce. You've got Hall Of Famers like John Mackey suffering from dementia, on and on, theres a list one hundred miles long.

Now you have a multi-billion corporation that can't look back and provide former players a good pension plan but built the league on their backs and thats' not slavery? What the fuck is slavery to you then? When a person is JUST in physical bondage? You wouldn't have a god damn clue because the establishment in America always wants to sweep this shit under the rug.

What do you call a damn NFL draft? It's close to an AUCTION! What do they based the draft on. A players physical presence and skills. Same slave system and players ultimately lose in the end. Only a small percentage go on to productive lives and the ones that don't, it's not always from drugs.

And for your fucking history, coming from an African-American, not all African-Americans WERE slaves. The numbers have been inflated. Only 2% of African-Americans can trace their lineage to Africa. The rest were either here or migrated from the islands. That number was inflated to overwhelm African-Americans and of course White historians wrote that. The first Transatlantic railroad was pioneered by a black man. Miami wouldn't exist without a woman named Julia Tuttle.

And there were white slaves too. Black slave owners too that were actually worse that white plantation owners.

So don't give me this bullshit about the comparison is asinine. If you don't own it, then you're subject to it. Millions of people in this country are "psychological" slaves to some kind of system.

We have a saying in music publishing. If you don't own the masters (your original music) the master owns you!

Notice I said "black and white" not just black and I'm not a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton fan. And also, one of the problems with most Americans is that you don't want to rectify shit! Sweep stuff under the rug when it's never been properly dealt with not from a standpoint of confrontation but from a standpoint of dialogue.

Okay, up in New England. As long as Randy Moss catches touchdown passes and as long as Tom Brady throws them, their okay because they are seen as "objects". Let something happen between Brady and Moss dealing with management and see how fast the fans turn on them and discard them like trash. You can ask Tony Eason about that.

And then for African-Americans, sports and entertainment is the ONLY way out and don't give me that bullshit about "Affirmative Distraction". A minorities and women still have a glass ceiling in the corporate world and a black man still has a hard time climbing the ladder and if they get in positions of prestige, they basically must give up who they are to "fit in" instead of being themselves. This is coming from an AFRICAN-AMERICAN who had to work with 82 people and only 3 white guys and I wouldn't play fucking golf with them. I had an attitude problem being me.

A basically, IT"S EVERYBODYS FAULT THAT THE SYSTEM IS THE WAY IT IS. BLACK, WHITE, MEXICAN. EVERYONE'S FAULT.

And people jump on Ricky Williams because "he's different" and he doesn't "say the right things like a football player". Williams may have a problem with weed but he's smart as hell. His problem was trying to seperate himself from the "system" and deal with the system at the same time. As long as Williams was that machine busting out 50 yard runs, people were in love with him, couldn't get enough of him. As soon as he was trying to save himself from a dumb ass coach (Wannstedt) and try to find himself, he became a dope head, a malconent (I've actually read on this site and others Williams being compared with Chris Henry?) and a fool. The message was, "you're and object making millions! You're stupid! Get your black ass back out there and run the ball! Damn your mental problem and your struggles. Your ass in supposed to be out there scoring touchdowns and trying to find a hole where there isn't one! Not many people saw past that and saw a man struggling.

And you might want to read Jim Browns' biography and North Dallas Forty by Peter Gent as well as some articles by Dr. Harry Edwards, the psychologist for the San Francisco 49ers talking about this stuff in sports.
Money does not make the individual. An individuals spirit does and that's what's wrong with this country. The vice (money and the American Dream) is what comes back to choke it.

It is what it is. There is still a slave system in many parts of American society. The only difference is that it's psychological. Talk to any NFL player and they will tell you that.

Ethurst you've fallen off the deep end......You're trying to use  Jason Taylor to get on a soap box.....

Ohh yeah,and Jason Taylor,and the NFl are why we invaded Iraq....

One last thing,... You keep bringing up being poked and prodedd..Apparently you've never had to take a DOT physical...They poke and prod you,and make you do all kinds of tests....to make $10 an hour...it's part of the job....

Lil B, I haven't used Jason Taylor as a soap box and I said nothing about Iraq. Ric Flair is why we are Iraq.

No, I haven't fallen off the deep end at all. It's the truth. I hate to derail this thread but it's like the deal with the Dolphins. People complained about the coaches and the team when I had always said that it's Waynes' screwed version of what happens at the top. As he was building Waynes World, the team was getting worse and fans basically blamed the players and the coaches when leadership starts at the top.

Talk to any NFL player about what goes on behind the scenes and the key is "behind the scenes" and you'll get a different view of Pro Football.

The key is "behind the scenes".

This Jason Taylor situation has been handled wrong by this Dolphins Adminstration. A guy made a point today. Had it been Cam/Mueller, we'd be marching on Davie to get rid of them.

And I apologize for derailing the thread and for my language in one of the posts. No offense to Hoodie and the rest of the guys, I love you guys, I just see a travesty and injustice in this whole NFL concept of treating any player black or white less than a human being.

Yes, players do have choices and they do make money but there is always a human side that you have to consider.

Yeah Ethurst it's so bad all the great players are running to Canada,and the Arena football league...to play for next to nothing.... ::)

If it's so bad..Quit,there will be 20 guy's right there to replace you.....I think I'm going to head to the Ladders right now,and see if I can get one of those jobs that pays me 8 million ayear....

oh im sooo mistreated, woe is me, my coaches, they just ignore me... sniff, sniff...

dude just do us all a favor and retire already, not going to miss you in the slightest bit. you either play out your contract with the fins or retire to a life acting in b level bollywood films.

I had another post but I didn't want to prolong this thing.

Call me Lil B and I'll be your agent! I'll make sure that you get top dollar in Canada or the Arena Football League.

And look, I'll invest your money in war bonds since the US is still hell bend on finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and dealing with "insurgents". And then, we'll buy the Dolphins and show people how the team should be ran with the fans in mind and we'll have a post career development program for players.

This is what made Don Shula a great coach. Instead of discarding players after their playing days, he still checks up on them and encourage certain programs they can get into.

I wonder if most of these people, if they were living back in 74, would have thought about Csonka, Kiick and Warfield jumping to the WFL while they were under contract with the Dolphins. Joe Robbie couldn't pay Csonka, Kiick and Warfield so they made a deal that 74 would be the last year and then they could go to the WFL.

Shula didn't object and the players didn't object. There was no tension that year because management and players understood that Csonka, Kiick and Warfield were being rewarded for their excellence on the field.

Not in todays' world. They would have been considered turncoats.

I agree with your arguement..for the old guys,the Guy's that had jobs in the offeseason..But today's players..I have no sympathy for what so ever.....

Total hijack....
I'm too small now,to play...and the bad knees.... :'(
6' and change 215lbs....(and shrinking)

I also think you'd have to get behind Stroke who called me to be my agent a couple of years ago,along with my Art dealer if I ever get famous....

Total hijack....here..I had a coach tell me once.."Son, if you had any semblance of speed what so ever...I'd make you a slow WR...."

End Hijack....

Ethrust might me onto something, another similarity between slavery and the NFL.  Slaves use to run to Canada to escape the shackles of slavery, just like modern day NFL players. 

Where is Harriot Tutman and the underground railroad when she is needed for this gross injustice of human dignity?

 ::)

Good Gawd as James Brown would say, how could I miss this? Run_to_win, you're hitting below the belt!

Lets not get into the "ownership" issue. The NFL has long kept certain people out of the ownership ranks even some white ownership groups. There are special unwritten codes to be an NFL Owner that even excludes ownership groups that could be all-white, female owners (with respect to the late Georgia Frontiere) and black ownership groups. The NFL ownership group is a strict elitist group in which you almost have to take a blood oath to get in. People pick at Al Davis but read your history on the AFL-NFL dealings and you'll see what I'm talking about.

And the only reason that Frontiere was handed over the ownership was because her husband, Carroll Rosenbloom was mysteriously "killed" in Golden Beach, Florida. He was a mover and shaker in the NFL but he also was notorious from dealing with mobsters, especially Meyer Lansky.

So the ownership thing isn't about color, it's about elitism. You can have money and not have an elitist attitude. If you had all black owners, you'd probably have the same problem because it's a mindset not based on color.

I'm glad that you are on the board and I didn't mean my response to you as a personal attack. That's just my angle on things.

Let's have a beer together 9:00PM your time...7:00PM my time! 

And yes, jason taylor is the reason why we are in Iraq. I just got it from CNN!

It all good. 

I support Taylor in this dispute.  The owners do have too much power.  And I am a supporter of the Rooney rule.  I do realize racism still exists in almost every area of society including the NFL. And I oppose the war.  So we agree on a lot.  But your comparison between slavery and the CBA is beyond lunacy.   

As your rant was circling in the bowl I managed to find this gem...

In your opinion, assuming for moment that the statement is accurate, what does it mean that only 2% can trace their lineage back to Africa?  Is that the other 98% can't trace their roots, or that their roots don't lead to Africa?  Does the statement assume that all of those who can have roots in slavery? 

My understanding is that a bit less than 50% can trace their lineage back to slavery, but a majority come from Africa.

Again, whether you believe in evolution or creation, all our roots trace back to the same place.  If it's evolution then don't we all have African roots?


To what end?  Was it intended to be a form of psychological terrorism? 


Is his race the most important thing about him?  What was his name?  Why not describe him as a great man who happened to be black.

This reminds me of a roommate I had during one enlightening semester of college.  He wasn't really a roommate, he was a friend of my roommates.  His "baby's momma" had kicked his cheating butt out of her place.  He visioned himself quite the ladies man and often tried to teach me the finer points of "pimping the 'hos".  His "trump card" in every conversation about race was, "WHO INVENTED THE STOPLIGHT?!!!  WHO INVENTED THE STOPLIGHT?!!!"  It was a bewildering "where the hell did that come from" tangent.   The response was usually "Who?" accompanied by a shrug.  His answer was classic.  "I DON'T KNOW BUT HE WAS BLACK!!!"  Without even realizing it, my roommate had stripped away Garrett Morgan's life and identity and defined his entire existence by the color of his skin.   


Speaking of 'bewildering where the hell did that come from" tangents...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/JaneTuttle.jpg/275px-JaneTuttle.jpg)
Julia Tuttle.

Transatlantic railroad?  A railroad across the Atlantic?  ???

This is going to sound racist, but it is the truth. 

One of sad realities of the African-American community is in way too many cases, they can't trace their lineage back to dad. 

^ Not racist, but retarded.

 This whole topic makes me SAD!!!!
 I am torn between my Love for the Dolphins and my great admiration for Jason and my hope and dream of Bill being able to turn this team around I would like nothing better then for the two of them to just get along no need to be friends but get along well enough to win some games together.
 But if forced to choose a side you have to go with Bill he is looking out for the team and I'm afraid Jason isn't and I was a Fan Before Jason and I will be a Fan when he is in Hollywood and Miami is a distant memory to him.
 The only thing to even come close to making me feel this bad is hearing that Zach would not be finishing his career in Miami

^^^^^

Welcome to the boards Iowa Dolfan.  I believe you're our first fan from that state. 

I'll add a welcome to IowaDolfan as well, and add a personal Iowa quirk before getting back on topic. When it comes to Iowa, here are three true statements that lead to an improbable, yet true, fourth statement...

1) I've never worn a tuxedo outside of being an active participant in a wedding.
2) I've never been married.
3) I've never lived in the state of Iowa
and...
4) I've worn a tuxedo in Iowa 5 times ;D


OK, -oomph- back on track...

I have a hard time siding with Jason in this situation, and feel like the "owners have too much power" argument that I'm hearing from several folks, while possibly true, should have no bearing on this case. Jason is under contract to the Miami Dolphins. It is a contract that has allowed him to earn millions upon millions of dollars, and one that has provided Jason the opportunity to gain the level of celebrity that he has, which in turn has opened up a whole new second career option for him.

I think Miami should work the phones overtime to get a deal made to respect Jason's wishes to be traded to a contender. "Last shot at a ring" is one of the few concessions I can see granting to multi-millionaire athletes with real-world perspective issues. Until that trade gets done though, Jason needs to get his ass to camp and honor the contract, and the team, that has given him so much.

Again, I ask why, for players, "honoring the contract" means coming into camp (even when the option to hold out is part of their contract), yet management is not chastised for failing to "honor the contract" when they cut a player.

Because that was the contract that the player and his agent agreed to. Those last two words are really critical to this point...

"Agreed to"

If the player wants a contract where everything is guaranteed and where a team doesn't have the ability to terminate that contract, the player should have his agent negotiate that in. If you sign a contract, you honor the contract.

Jason's contract doesn't say he has to come to a voluntary OTA. 

Nor does Jason's contract say he has to play this year.   He agreed not to play for another team unless the Dolphins cut or trade him.  But he did not agree to forgo retirement until the end date of the contract. 

this isn't a contract dispute... this is simply jason taylor not wanting to be a part of a rebuilding team. that's fine, only problem is that his rights belong to the dolphins, so his only other option is to retire. so for jason its simple, either retire or commit to a rebuilding process with the dolphins.

I am against what Tylor is doing and I appear to be in the minority. This is a professional sport where he gets paid MILLIONS per year to sack people. When you sign a contract you have made a commitment to your team ,your team mates and fans. While the rest of us smucks are struggling to get by day to day, with gas prices and everything else increasing in price besides our paychecks, Jayson is thumbing his nose at us and the dolphin franchise. I am tired of hearing I want out because I want to win a championship, did Marino cry like this ?Give us a break Jayson, if you don't want to play then why don't you give Chad Johnson a call, maybe you guys can hang out this season.

Once again: "agreed to" goes both ways.

If the owners didn't want the players to have the contractually negotiated ability to hold out for up to 10 games, why'd they agree to such terms in the CBA?

JT is exercising an option that the NFLPA fought very hard to earn.  Why is this any different than the Dolphins cutting Zach Thomas?  If they didn't want to pay him, why'd they agree to his contract?

Ask Zach Thomas what kind of commitment signing a contract really is.

When management shows that they have no qualms dumping you at the drop of a hat, why should you feel any sort of guilt over exercising an option that is completely legitimate under the collective bargaining agreement that both the players and the owners signed?

I am disgusted when I hear people complain about how athletes need to shut up because they make enough already.

First of all, it smacks of pure bitterness; athletes get paid based on the amount of money they (as a group) bring in.  But more importantly, for any American (or first-world citizen) to sit on a computer and make a post to the internet about how someone else makes too much money and needs to simply be grateful for what they have is rank hypocrisy.

The fact that you are able to make this post to an internet message board indicates that you are likely in a better financial situation than over 90% of the population of this planet.  Yet I'm sure that we all have had disputes with our employers, quit one job for a better one, etc.  By your logic, since none of us ever need to worry about where our next meal is coming from (which puts us at a decided advantage over several billion people on Earth), why aren't we all still working for minimum wage?

I tottaly disagree with anyone that tries to Compare My job to a professional athelete,then tell my I should treat them just like I would want to be treated....MOST Professional atheltes are over paid for what they do...

It's like my Boss says,They pay me the Big Bucks to deal with the Big shits.....

How do you figure they are overpaid?  They generate hundreds of millions of dollars for their teams.  You think they should be making the same as a district manager at Safeway?

As I've already said, the money they make is based on the money they bring in.  And they bring in a HELL of a lot of money.

And just like I mentioned, someone who is making the equivalent of two dollars a day doing backbreaking physical labor for 14 hours a day would almost certainly believe that YOU are overpaid for what YOU do.  Those that live in glass houses...

Again Do you really need to make 5 million dollars a year to survive in America...Nope....That's the point...

But you're going to continue to argue semantics.....and wag your finger at everyone for Saying he makes 8 million dollars a year..So we should feel sorry for him...bullshit....


Modified to add...On the holding out ten games as part of their contract,You're totally misinterpreting that,it's not in their contract saying they can hold out.......They can hold out for 10 games before losing a year of service....Meaning if they have 3 years left on their contract,and they hold out for ten games,then play for the last 6..they'll have 2 years left on that contract.If they hold out for 11 games,when they do come back They aren't allowed to count that as a full year of service meaning they would still have 3 years left on their contract....It's a clause to protect the Clubs from someone holding out,and having someone sit out their contract,then signing with a different team.....Let's remember Ricky's Contract got picked right back up,where it left off before his sudden retirement...(I think minus the bonuses he accrued before his retirement)

You can survive in America on minimum wage.  Millions of Americans survive on that, or even less.  But somehow, I doubt anyone posting in this thread is at that level.

No, what I'm saying is: we are ALL overpaid, relative to the majority of the world.  Don't hate him because he's more overpaid than you are; to someone living off of a 3-digit income per year, you're no different than Jason Taylor.

Correct.  So in order to fulfill the terms of their contract, they only need to play 6 games per year, as per the collective bargaining agreement.

Therefore, even if JT wanted to continue playing in the NFL (but just not in Miami), he would have to dress for 6 games this year, and 6 games next year.  And that would be honoring his contract in precisely the same sense and spirit that the Dolphins honored Zach Thomas' contract when they cut him.

I agree with Spider Dan.  Why should the owners pocket massive amounts of money off of the sweat of others with little cost?  Without them there would be no sport to begin with.  

Aside from that, getting paid that much only increases the quality of the game.  If they got paid (players) what a store manager at Jiffy Lube got paid I doubt many would get into the sport to begin with.  Why do you think there are no more heavyweight boxers worth anything from the US?  

They can make 200,000 a year,and there would still be 10 guy's replace them.....As fans (most) tend to expect more from the guy's that make more money...Ie the Jason Taylors,then you do the guy's that make the miniumum...What they make for the Owners is irrelavant......I feel it's the same argument that Ethurst was trying to make comparing it to Slavery...The game will go on....For every one guy that whines about how bad it is..there's 10 there more than willing to replace him....

I totally disagree with Higher salaries = Better quality game...The College players don't make squat,what dilutes the College game is 300 + teams....And it's only been the past 10-20 years that players have made Extraordinary Salaries....Where the Players are making on average like 5 times higher than the average person in america...(say a minumum Salary $300,000 say average american making $60,000)

I Feel Jason Taylor is being a Whiny little rich Bitch,Either trade me or I'll retire....He's not threatening to hold out... 

Total hijack
There's tons of reasons for that...and it's not all about the money....Boxing in general is dying..not just heavywieghts....
End hijack...

Someone bought up minimum wage.

I think that this country could do better to the average working guy as far as wages. Most of us are in the same boat. We make the companies that we work for millions of dollars and it's an embarassment for Congress to argue if someone should get a 50 cent raise per year.

NFL owners make a ton of money. It's almost insane the type of money that they make. Remember, the NFL surpasses MLB as America's number one sport years ago in viewership, product manufacturing and marketing.

The income distribution can be more even in America if we didn't have all these damn taxes and if people were valued for what they are worth. Many Americans are undervalued in the current jobs they have.

So Taylor is exercising his value at the same time. One person on this board cannot tell me that if they had their choice, if they would still work for their current employer or if a better position came with more cash and benefits that they wouldn't go after that.

Same thing happened to me when I was in the corporate world as a bank auditor. Alltel offered me more money than I was making for the state (car, travel, executive position) and the department that I worked for blocked it. I wasn't under a "contract" I was just an employee that could be fired at any time.

You can say that I was a restricted free agent and didn't even know it.

As a true right wing conservative I do support someones ability to make whatever they can, but I will always fall on the side of the owners, because it is a business. I have had jobs where I have signed a contract, either I fulfilled them or was laidoff.
What upsets me about what Jayson is doing is the fact he is thumbing his nose at this organization and its fans. I am sick and tired of professional athletes pulling the strings of an organization. I personally blame the unions, every time they touch something it makes things worst. This is a business and as long as a team owns a contract you signed they have every right to do as they please with that player.
Jayson can quit for all I care, why not after all he is a team player. These players are way over paid(my opion) the price is going up to go see a game because of these prima donnas who believe they own the world.

Yes, most of them being CFL, AFL, or (former) XFL players.  Do you think those products are just as good as the NFL?

Guys that make the minimum don't win Defensive Player of the Year, make 6 Pro Bowls, and 3 first-team All-Pros, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I don't see how it has anything to do with slavery at all; it is the very definition of market economics.

America is willing to pay (and is paying) billions of dollars for the product that the NFL provides.  Since this money is already on the table, it can either go entirely to the owners, or partially to the players.  Arguing that players are overpaid just means that you think owners are underpaid; given that the owners are far richer than any player, this seems absurd.

One could make the argument that the NFL should just charge less, but that's a naive and rather silly argument; if they are already selling out stadiums with ticket prices as they are, what possible reason would they have to lower them?  Should they go back to CBS/NBC/Fox/ESPN and say, "OK, we see that you guys want to pay us 3 billion dollars for broadcast rights, but honestly, we'd feel better just accepting 2 billion?"

Were you a big fan of the XFL?  How about Arena Football?

Why are you stuck on what they make compared to the average person?  The average person doesn't generate millions of dollars for their business.

Not trying to start a fight, but your argument is full of holes and mistakes. 

First- A contract does NOT mean the owner has every right to do as they please with a player.  Whatever is stated in the contract is it, as long as it falls within the parameters that both parties agreed to.  Hence the point of the contract.  No one gets screwed that never saw it coming (at least thats what its for anyways).

Second- The players have absolutely NO say in ticket prices.  The only thing they ever negotiate is their own salaries, and in comparison to what an NFL franchise rakes in it barely scratches that big money pile. 

Third- To blame unions making things "worst" is asinine.  I hardly see child labor laws, unfair wages and hours, unsafe working conditions, and equality as making things "worst".  Maybe you like slaving for an owner but many others don't.  They just want their fair share. 

Spider you're the one that Says you're so disgusted by us fans that keep bringing up how much Jason Taylor Makes,and trying to compare it to the manger of Safe way....Let's remember there is this thing called the Salary Cap,and We incur a Cap penalty....Jason't Value is greater to the Miami Dolphins if He plays versus  anything we can get for him on the open market...This is the Issue....

Remember this Quote?



Let's see the the Safeway manager Walking up to his boss and say, I want to work for a winner....Trade me or I'm not coming to work for the next 2 weeks...IT doesn't work that way.....They say Bye bye, Have fun walking the Unemployment line.....


You brought up the world economy...Where else can Jason Taylor play football and make 8 million dollars a year? Hmm china?,Japan?

That's right,You have to play many years to do that..first...So what's your point? or are you going to change your stance again?


and this has to do with what about Jason Taylor Holding out not playing for the Dolphins..Again it's the Same as Ethurst arguing Slavery...You're arguing NFL politcs..Not the Jason Taylor case.....The average person can't relate making $60,000 a year...But you seem to be implying... The Dolphins Will cease to make money of Jason Taylor isn't on the team....


Because it goes back to you first quote,and Wagging your finger at everyone..Like We should feel sorry for Jason taylor....And continue to Argue just to argue....
I've never said that...You did and you assumed it...You need read what's there.....The owners also have more expenses,and have the marketing,and Incur all the expenses...The player is an employee...Do you make more than the owner? sounds absurd doesn't it? ::)

So when you want to argue about Jason Taylor I'll continue the conversation,But if you keep want to keep bitching about "the Man" the owners keeping Jason Taylor down..I'm done....

That's if he plays.  If he doesn't play (which is his contractually negotiated right), then his value is not greater.

You're forgetting a significant detail; there would be teams lining up to acquire Jason Taylor if he were released, paying him the same (or more) than he is receiving now.

So the more accurate analogy would be the Safeway manager being fired, then being hired one week later by Costco, for a better job making equivalent or superior pay.

San Diego?

You claim that you expect more from the guys making more money.  JT has already delivered more.  What is your point?

You keep accusing me of involving outside politics and sidetracking the discussion.

What does the average income of a middle-class citizen have to do with Jason Taylor's contract?

If you are going to continue to beat that drum, I'm going to continue to hold your feet to the fire on it.  The ONLY REASON it even came up in the first place is because YOU (and others like you) were complaining that because Taylor makes much more than any of us, he should just shut up.

Now you tell me:  what POSSIBLE relevance does our income have to this situation?

If you want to just talk about Jason Taylor, let's talk about him:

- The collective bargaining agreements allow players to sit out of training camp, preseason games, and regular season games (at a loss of pay).
- Jason Taylor is exercising an option that his representatives have fought for and earned.
- The team exercises a very similar option multiple times every year when they cut players.

So why is this even an issue?  Why is it bad and dishonorable for a player to exercise his option, but perfectly OK for the team to exercise theirs?

It's called the salary cap,that's why his Salary is important..He's one of our top 5 highest payed players on OUR TEAM...And by the way...One of the reason we are having a hard time trading him is His large Salary....and you continue to wag your finger at everyone that disagrees with you..but you seem to be the only One whining about it.....

You're not holding my feet to shit,cause I don't care if you're offended,or disgusted....

So now it's all about the salary cap?


You didn't seem to have a problem with the salary cap hit a month ago when you made that post.

I still don't....But you have to talk about his Salary ...You're the one bitching at us For bringing up his Salary  ???

I have no objections to you bringing up his salary.  What I DO object to is you bringing up his salary and comparing it to ours as a reason for why he should report to camp.

The salary of the average American has no relevance whatsoever to JT's contract negotiations.

It IS about the money.  Boxing may be dying in this country but not necessarily in others and it may even be argued that it is due to the lack of premier American names to sell it. 

My point was to show that big athletes are choosing something that will eventually be more lucrative.  So instead of choosing boxing they go with ball sports which has been paying a hell of a lot more than what they might make, even if they make it big time in boxing.  I wanted to show that a lower paying profession reduces its quality, as far as sports is concerned anyway. 

Kind of like the MLS compared to the British, Spanish, German, or French leagues.

Guru I boxed from 1992-1995...in Golden Gloves,in Semi pro...It was dying back then...The Corruption,and The It's too Brutal,Violent,and the Not enough people teaching it...No corner Gyms every where...Boxing lost it's Infra structure....more than the lack of money the Money is there for the right people...but there aren't any people...

For some people It's too violent,for other's it's not Violent enough.....Then you have mixed martial arts,and Boxing taking almost all of the big fights to pay per view....too many different Rules on who and when you can fight in every state.....

I'm not gonna start another Politics of boxing arguement...Trust me it's more than about the money. ;)

I quit because of headaches,and to play college ball,I also got tired of getting my Face bashed in..I was ugly enough as is....

  Then there is a hold out & you start calling the player names for asking for it to be guaranteed.   You start saying the player is to afraid to go out & earn the money that he wants it given to you. 

The owners have "little cost"?

 ::)

Yes, Runz.  That's what that sentence meant.   ::)

 ::)

You are totally right about the dimishing boxing gyms.  I don't know how much ball sports has to do with it, but just like in your experience I'm betting its probably a lot.  How much money has to do with it?  I'll take your word for it since your perspective is more experinced than mine.   

On a side note, I would have never guessed you were a boxer.  I boxed as well but never anything formal as you.  Its HELLA work to get into shape for it.

Sorry for the derail...

Can you elaborate?

The salary cap alone is $117,000,000, with the lowest payroll last season being $76,000,000, and that's only for a fraction of the franchise's employees.

Well how much revenue do the franchises generate?  I'm willing to bet that its a hell of lot more than 120,000,000.  As for being only a fraction of a team's employees, I'm wondering how much CEO's of big companies get in comparison to the rest of the company.  In fact, many recieve more yearly than some of the best players in the league.

My point wasn't to argue that they should receive more, but if they did I wouldn't question why.  I know its ridiculous that teachers get less than what they make in a quarter of a game, but its not their fault the NFL has grown into what it has today.  They are just getting their fair share of it which if anyone is entitled to it, its the players.

(http://www.seksueelgeweld.nl/prikbord/images/smiles/rofl.gif)(http://www.seksueelgeweld.nl/prikbord/images/smiles/rofl.gif)(http://www.seksueelgeweld.nl/prikbord/images/smiles/rofl.gif)

Revenues generated?  CEOs of big companies?  What does either have to do with the owners having "little costs"? 

Instead of constantly moving the goal posts an adult would have admitted that he was wrong.  The owners have significant costs. 

I'm very impressed, "sir".  Well thats what I get for arguing with someone who reads shit and creates his own little fantasy. 

Since you're not here so that I may shout it in your face and slap you a few times here you go...

MY SENTENCE ASKED WHY SHOULD OWNERS ENJOY MASSIVE PROFITS WITH LITTLE COST.  LITTLE COST BEING DIRECTED TO THE DEBATE AT HAND...PLAYER'S SALARIES!!!

Now if you're just arguing with me for the sake of being the dick that you are, then my friend the only remedy for such a shitty existence is for you to stick your head in the toilet and don't flush. 

Wouldn't it be safe to define what "little costs" are? I think the Miami Dolphins LTD are also under Huiezenga Holdings, Inc. So wouldn't we have to look at Waynes' books to determine what those "costs" are?

I'll get denver_bronco to call Wayne right away!

(http://www.seksueelgeweld.nl/prikbord/images/smiles/rofl.gif)

Here's a video of you typing another one of your irrelevant and infantile responses: link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf3nFz4xzNE).

Must be a slow day in the lawn mowing business for the Northwest Who Gives a Shit League...

.....college.....bwahahahah!!!!!LMAO!!!!  :D

That or the minorities are making fun of you again resulting in a cranky runz attempting to validate himself on a message board.

If you two want to argue then do it in private messages.  None of us care to see it.