Coroner has sex with multiple corpses

[Spider-Dan]

  Where did I say the Victim decided anything ?

Let this guy bang your recently deceased daughter or loved one and then tell me you think the same punishment applies to the guy who just spry painted Fuck you on the side of the wall at 7-11............

Unless you're saying that you consider the dead person to be the "victim"?   (of... rape?)

Your entire point was that "if it happened to your family, you wouldn't think it's just vandalism."  Letting the victims determine the scope of a crime is among the worst ideas one can implement in a justice system.

[Dave Gray]

  Where did I say the Victim decided anything ?  You usually don't make alot of sense............today you outdid yourself. 

He made total sense.

In the case you made, with my dead daughter, I would be the surviving victim of the crime you're suggesting, and you're asking ME (the aforementioned victim) to then decide what I think is fair punishment.

Spider Dan was correct to the letter.  If you're going to call someone out and make roll-eyes, at least make sure you're right.

[Defense54]

 

I wouldn't want anyones daughters, mothers, grandmothers subjected to that after death.  Anyone dealing with the violent death , Sorry I didn't include the word ANYONE. But anyone dealing with that kind Trauma shouldn't have to again deal with the fact that there loved one's remains were now desecrated.  You guys make a hideous comparison.........comparing the Human Remains of a person to an object and equal to any "THING" that could be Vandalized. And You say That I'm letting the Victims decide the crime or punishment?  I'm sorry did this happen to me? Did it happen to you? Who here is a Victim?  It called Empathy.  Do you know what Empathy is?

The Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.

Basically its putting yourselves into another's shoes. I was asking how you would feel if it was your relative or loved one would you like the Law or anyone representing them as an inanimate object? Just a thing?   

[Defense54]

Unless you're saying that you consider the dead person to be the "victim"?   (of... rape?)

Your entire point was that "if it happened to your family, you wouldn't think it's just vandalism."  Letting the victims determine the scope of a crime is among the worst ideas one can implement in a justice system.

My Family your family Anyone's family.  Its sad that I have to actually point that out.  And Yes I consider a recently deceased person should be protected.  How about people in Brain dead coma's? Should they not be protected as well?  We have people here who go on and on about New Born fetuses...........but we don't respect the Body of a living person over an inanimate object? Is it equal to a living body with a soul and a memory?  Of course not.............but it is certainly higher on the list then a THING and it means a hell of alot to the families and Victims .

Using those rolling eyes again Dave..................    Your arguments deserve it.

[Spider-Dan]

"Putting yourself into another's shoes" is removing your objectivity.

You are asking how I would feel if it happened to someone in my family; of course I would be outraged.  But as I already said, letting the victims determine the scope of a crime (and therefore, the level of punishment) is one of the worst ideas you can implement in a justice system.

Once again: your entire argument is that this should be treated more seriously because the victimized families would think so.  How can this be anything BUT "letting the victims determine the punishment"?

If you really think that the punishment needs to be more severe, then you shouldn't need to invoke the feelings of the victimized families to substantiate your point.

[Defense54]

"Putting yourself into another's shoes" is removing your objectivity.

You are asking how I would feel if it happened to someone in my family; of course I would be outraged.  But as I already said, letting the victims determine the scope of a crime (and therefore, the level of punishment) is one of the worst ideas you can implement in a justice system.

Once again: your entire argument is that this should be treated more seriously because the victimized families would think so.  How can this be anything BUT "letting the victims determine the punishment"?

If you really think that the punishment needs to be more severe, then you shouldn't need to invoke the feelings of the victimized families to substantiate your point.

Isn't that what creating Laws is about?  Why do we have laws that are enhanced for children , Pregnant women, handicapped people?  Because we try to protect those that can't protect themselves.  And I believe and I am trying to make the case that when you desecrate the remains of a persons loved ones.........especially a loved one that has past away within just a few hours, you deeply affect the people that that person has left behind.  At the very least..........its alot different then just the  vandalism of a piece of property.

This whole conversation was brought up because you and Dave suggested that the Raping of a Corpse is within the same realm as Vandalizing a piece of property.  Besides being completely uncaring and extremely insensitive you keep claiming I'm asking for this from a Victims point of view.

I ask you again..........Are you a Victim?  Has your departed loved one ever been raped?   No.  So you are NOT a Victim.

Now I ask your completely unbiased and unvictimized opinion then..............how would You feel if your recently deceased , daughter, wife, or mother were desecrated in such a fashion?   And do you believe that their remains are the same as any other inanimate object that might be vandalized by another?

If so Then I ask you again..............have you ever buried a loved one? Have you ever had a ceremony for a loved one?  Did you do that for a Car you might have lost? Or any Item or inanimate object you might have thats important to you that someone could Vandalize? Why is that?  So how can you say thats its the same as any inanimate object?

 

[Spider-Dan]

I ask you again..........Are you a Victim?  Has your departed loved one ever been raped?   No.  So you are NOT a Victim.

Now I ask your completely unbiased and unvictimized opinion then..............how would You feel if your recently deceased , daughter, wife, or mother were desecrated in such a fashion?

So to clarify:

You just confirmed that I am NOT a victim, but then ask me how I would feel if I were one.  If I were a victim, then my opinion would no longer be objective.  So your premise is fundamentally flawed.

If you want to ask me how I would feel if I were NOT a victim, it's not that hard.  Scroll up.

[Defense54]

So to clarify:

You just confirmed that I am NOT a victim, but then ask me how I would feel if I were one.  If I were a victim, then my opinion would no longer be objective.  So your premise is fundamentally flawed.

If you want to ask me how I would feel if I were NOT a victim, it's not that hard.  Scroll up.

Ohhhhh I see now. So its about how I asked the question and not the actual content?  Give me a break and stop deflecting already.  You made a dumb statement. I explained why.  Is it so hard to just answer a fucking question without putting labels on your train of thought? Thats obviously what people do when they have nothing else.

[Spider-Dan]

Yes, it is about how you asked the question, because if you asked the question any differently, you'd get a completely different answer!

Once more: are you asking me what I think the consequences should be as someone that's not involved?  Of course you are not; I've already clearly stated that I don't think that the penalties should be increased.

The entire premise of your question is "put yourself in someone else's shoes...", which I refuse to do.  If you want to ask the question in a way that does NOT involve an emotional-victim-response, then I'll be happy to answer it.

[Defense54]

The entire premise of your question is "put yourself in someone else's shoes...", which I refuse to do.  If you want to ask the question in a way that does NOT involve an emotional-victim-response, then I'll be happy to answer it.

I'll tell you what I'd like............how about an honest fucking answer ?  Either you believe that a persons corpse is as valuable as any inanimate object or you don't.  You refuse to do it becuase you made a dumb statement and you don't want to live up to it. 

[Spider-Dan]

I don't even understand what you're asking for.  Are you seriously bashing me for being too cowardly to say what I've already said?  If so, the best response I can give is: try actually reading the thread.

Then I think it's fair to prosecute it as vandalism or some other sort of destruction-of-property statute.  But particularly when it comes to the dead, I think that having sex with them should (legally) be no worse than if he were to have mutilated them.

With a living person, raping them is arguably worse than just beating them up because of the complex psychological effects of being a victim of rape.  The dead have no such worries.

Doesn't that clearly explain my position when I'm not being asked to pretend I'm the victim?

[Defense54]

I don't even understand what you're asking for.  Are you seriously bashing me for being too cowardly to say what I've already said?  If so, the best response I can give is: try actually reading the thread.
Doesn't that clearly explain my position when I'm not being asked to pretend I'm the victim?

No it doesn't explain shit actually.   I've given several reasons why a corpse is more valuable then an inanimate object and why the comparison is absurd.  DUH. We all know your position .............but can you take a second and explain why?

[Spider-Dan]

What's to explain?  It's a dead body.  It is not a living person with rights and responsibilities.

Does this dead body carry a great amount of significance to the people who have legal custody of it?  Yes.  But that is no basis for wildly increasing sentences.

Again, to put this in perspective: the "victims" in this case are the family; the same people who were preparing to put this body in a hole in a ground to be eaten by worms while it rotted away.  Or maybe they were preparing to incinerate it.

In any case, my point is not that the families have not suffered an injustice, nor that the criminals should be let free.  My point is that crimes against the living should carry significantly stiffer penalties than crimes against those who are already dead.  It is utterly absurd for a criminal such as the person in the original post to go to jail for 5 years for having sex with a corpse... yet the drunk driver who MADE the corpse gets out in the same time frame.

[Tepop84]

Spider dan you are right.  you will just frustrate yourself arguing w someone who will never understand.

[SCFinfan]

In any case, my point is not that the families have not suffered an injustice, nor that the criminals should be let free.  My point is that crimes against the living should carry significantly stiffer penalties than crimes against those who are already dead.  It is utterly absurd for a criminal such as the person in the original post to go to jail for 5 years for having sex with a corpse... yet the drunk driver who MADE the corpse gets out in the same time frame.

Just a hypothetical:

What about characterizing crimes against dead bodies as a crime against a living person, with the chose in action automatically transferring to the heirs at law at the moment knowledge of the crime is ascertained? Do you think it would be wise for a state to do this? Constitutional?