Socialized Health Care Thoughts

[run_to_win]

Your idea does not address people with hereditary or genetic problems that can skip a generation and strike them down even though they do not engage in any of the unhealthy practices you and dlphin keep talking about.

Yes it does.  You ignored the obvious so you'd have something to bitch about.

I think "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" could be used to show people have as much right to medical care as they do an education.

Are we going to socialize the university system next?

How many billions of dollars are lost in productivity each year to illness because people cannot get care and work themselves into the ground, until they are too sick to function, and in the mean time infect their co workers? Perhaps the overall cost of the program could be offset by recovering some of this lost time.

Perhaps.

[bsmooth]

Yes it does.  You ignored the obvious so you'd have something to bitch about

.

No you put them in the same boat as people who abused their bodies with bad practices and unhealthy living. You would have them all pay the same co-pays even if they did nothing more than have the misfortune to being born that way.

Are we going to socialize the university system next?

What do you call subsidized loans, Pell Grants, Board of Governor waivers?

[Dphins4me]

Dphins, you still have not told us what you would like to see. Telling people to change their lifestyle is not solving the problem. What do you think the solution is here?

   I basically have.  Take the majority of lifestyle problems out of HC & its all different ball games.  The more something is in demand the more it cost.  People want to role their eyes to the amount of crap they take into their bodies on a daily basis & I'm not talking just bad food.  Chemicals affect us & they are in everything & it does not take a lot to have an effect on our bodies.  You should see what they put in a Tenox ( Food preservative )  There is a reason green is popping up everywhere & its not just for the Earth.   People are starting to demand products that will not cause you ill effects.  I love that.

HMO also are not about saying money.  They are simply another hand in the pot.

Uhm...I care for myself. However, my blood clots in my veins. It's a genetic thing. I must monitor it and take blood thinners when/if my levels hit a certain point. I have to go to the doctor and have blood drawn. So...am I just supposed to "just take better care of myself"?

Sorry, to hear about your problem.  For people like you who have a real need for medical care.  Its the life style people that are driving cost up & the fact Pharm Comp. are doing everything they can to get every American on some kind of drug.  Be it life style or they create a condition ( Restless leg syndrome - Please )

Get the life style people healthy & people who truly have a need will be able to use it at a reasonable price.

Pharm is the driving cost.  Reduce it & HC will come down to where people like you will have more affordable HC.  The people that truly need it.

I do not want the Gov involved in our health. Its just another step for them into our homes.

[Dave Gray]

^^^

I don't understand your explanation.  Simplify it for me. 

What do you mean "take the majority of lifestyle problems out of health care"?  Who takes it out?  What are the problems you're describing?  It's all run by the private sector now.  How do you get that done?


I don't really understand what you're saying, but from what I gather, it would seem that government control would be an answer to at least some of those problems that the private sector has been unable to weed out itself. 

[Spider-Dan]

Dphins4me, are you unable to have any health-related discussion without habitually beating the "live healthier!" drum?

I mean, seriously... are you saying that to solve the national healthcare problems we are currently facing, instead of providing healthcare insurance to all citizens we should just pass out some pamphlets on the benefits of eating healthy?  This is like abstinence-only education, only a thousand times more useless.

You are not providing an actionable solution to the problems we are facing.  Please try to get back on topic.

[Dphins4me]

As you stated before, you're okay with roads and bridges being built by government, instead of the private sector.  That isn't in the bill of rights, yet we can all kind of agree that they're necessary.  Why are you okay with being taxed for this purpose, and these business decisions (how to spend the money) being made by an elected official, yet the idea of the same system for health care being totally preposterous?

   We now need roads & bridges to move products from one point to another throughout the country.  Allowing our economy to grow ( Not that it is currently ) 

If they were built by the private sector then every road would be a toll road, since the idea for a business is to make money.   I understand a Gov need to do this, plus if you didn't then there would be no interstates unless the states got together & planed it out.  As I've said prior.  Fed. Gov has a role.  Should be a very limited role in our daily lives.  Local & State should handle far more than what they do.

Individuals cannot go out & build roads.  They can go out & get HC.

[Buddhagirl]

Your "solution" still does nothing to make sure that those that are ill have adequate coverage and can pay their bills. I don't see how everyone else eating better and getting exercise does anything to alleviate my medical bills. You are not offering a plan or a solution. You're just saying people need to treat their bodies better and it will drive down the cost of health care.

I want universal health care to keep those that are sick from going to the poor house just to take care of themselves or their family. If I didn't have coverage I don't know what I would have done when I was sick. I might not have gone to the hospital when I did because I didn't have the money and would have certainly died.

No one - poor or rich - should have to make that decision.

[Dphins4me]

Dphins4me, are you unable to have any health-related discussion without habitually beating the "live healthier!" drum?

I mean, seriously... are you saying that to solve the national healthcare problems we are currently facing, instead of providing healthcare insurance to all citizens we should just pass out some pamphlets on the benefits of eating healthy?  This is like abstinence-only education, only a thousand times more useless.

You are not providing an actionable solution to the problems we are facing.  Please try to get back on topic.

 Yes, that is the first step.   Providing everyone HC so they can continue to eat poorly etc.. will do what for them besides allow them to buy more drugs?  Do you believe doctors can make you healthy with pill?  If so, the really we have nothing to talk about.  We will never agree.

I will say this.  If its Gov ran then it will be ran poorly & slowly.  Like everything else they do.  Co-Worker is trying to get money from the Gov for Sept on his GI Bill.  This is Mar.  He has to fax everything because the office he needs to speak with does not have a phone ( So they tell him )  To try to get me to believe Gov. ran HC will be far better than that or what we see elsewhere is just not going to happen.

 Turning to the Gov is not a solution.  Its expanding the problem.   You say they will not do some of the fears some of us have.  Have you ever known them to stop?  Its always a little here.  A little there.  Until they have it all.  

We did not have a HC problem years ago?  Why?  We did not have the amount of crap they are now putting into what they are calling food.  Do you think our bodies all of a sudden are becoming insulin resistant?  No, so much sugar in products is doing that.  Basically 9 teaspoons of sugar ( 36 Grams ) in an 8 Oz soft drink.  Drink a 20 Oz & you have just taken in 90 Grams of sugar in one drink.  Now multiply by 3 or 4 a day & add in a few candy bars for a few years & hello type 2.

Sorry to hear you think taking care of yourself is not the answer.  I live my life without drugs ( Use to be on 3 daily prescriptions ) with a change of lifestyle I'm off of all 3..  I still enjoy a pizza.  I still enjoy candy.  I just greatly reduced how much I put into my body. I started eating better & slowly I can off my prescriptions.  I'm healthier at 43 & in better shape than I was at 27.

Did you see the movie Wall-E BTW?  Where everyone was to damn fat to move & robots had to do everything for them?  Its funny but really I can see that day arriving.

Am I correct with this statement?  In your opinion its useless to try & educate people on their health & what makes them in bad health?  

[Dave Gray]

I don't think you're going to find anyone on here disagreeing with your "eat healthier, drugs are not the answer" repetition.

We get it.  Really.

What we're not getting is your solution to the problem.  How do you implement such a plan?  How do you suggest that health care be run?

Do you plan to have the government get involved in any way?  Do you expect all of America to suddenly start eating healthy?  Obviously not, so what's your answer?

[Dphins4me]

Your "solution" still does nothing to make sure that those that are ill have adequate coverage and can pay their bills. I don't see how everyone else eating better and getting exercise does anything to alleviate my medical bills.

 Nothing will alleviate you bills.  However, it is my opinion that less people means cheaper bills for you.  Remember Phram & Hospitals are a business.

No one has addressed this yet.  Why would a young adult want to be a doctor when they know the Gov will control everything they do & their pay?   What is the advantage & disadvantage?

You are not offering a plan or a solution. You're just saying people need to treat their bodies better and it will drive down the cost of health care.

The plan is to leave it alone & let things work themselves out.

Just like our economy.  Obviously what the Gov is doing is not making Wall St. happy.

I want universal health care to keep those that are sick from going to the poor house just to take care of themselves or their family. If I didn't have coverage I don't know what I would have done when I was sick. I might not have gone to the hospital when I did because I didn't have the money and would have certainly died.

Glad you went.

No one - poor or rich - should have to make that decision.

 What about the down side of Gov. provided HC?  Or are you simply dismissing it?

[Spider-Dan]

I will join the chorus and repeat myself:

Dphins4me, what is your actionable solution to the problems we are facing?

Sitting back and hoping that healthy living spontaneously happens does not work.  There is effectively no one in America who is unaware that eating better and exercising will improve your health.  We have had it drilled into our heads in school since the '50s.

edit:

The plan is to leave it alone & let things work themselves out.

So then, your "plan" is to do nothing.

This has been tried for the last... well, forever.  It has failed.  This is why we are at the point that we are at now.

[Dphins4me]

What we're not getting is your solution to the problem.  How do you implement such a plan?  How do you suggest that health care be run?

Do you plan to have the government get involved in any way?  Do you expect all of America to suddenly start eating healthy?  Obviously not, so what's your answer?

Insurance Comp have already started.  If you are not taking care of yourself, then you pay more for your care.  Some States ( Alabama ) put a " Obesity Penalty " in their plan.  

You start with hitting people in their wallets, because the sad fact is that is the only thing people pay attention to.  Hit them hard enough & they will make changes or learn to live with less money.  Provide them with the information they need to get healthy. Majority will change in time.  Once you get off soda's, fast food they do not taste nearly as good as they use to.  Your taste buds change & stop getting use to the sodium & sugar in processed foods.

As insurance rates come down then the people who cannot get HC will be able to purchase it.  IMO.

[Dphins4me]

Sitting back and hoping that healthy living spontaneously happens does not work.  There is effectively no one in America who is unaware that eating better and exercising will improve your health.  We have had it drilled into our heads in school since the '50s.

So basically because people are not interested in their own health we cater & take care of them?

Back at you.  My original post was how do you think Gov provided HC should work?  How should it.    Did you ever give how you think it should work?  Which is what I was wanting.

 

[Dave Gray]

Insurance Comp have already started.  If you are not taking care of yourself, then you pay more for your care.  Some States ( Alabama ) put a " Obesity Penalty " in their plan.  

You start with hitting people in their wallets, because the sad fact is that is the only thing people pay attention to.  Hit them hard enough & they will make changes or learn to live with less money.  Provide them with the information they need to get healthy. Majority will change in time.  Once you get off soda's, fast food they do not taste nearly as good as they use to.  Your taste buds change & stop getting use to the sodium & sugar in processed foods.

As insurance rates come down then the people who cannot get HC will be able to purchase it.  IMO.

Okay, here's the problem.

You are giving some solutions (although some I find extremely poor), but at least they're there.  ...mostly through education and changes to the insurance structure.  Who makes those changes?  Without government involvement, you can't force that change on businesses, and they won't just do it themselves.  Who pays for the education you're describing?  Who sets the standards for such education?

[Dphins4me]

Your idea does not address people with hereditary or genetic problems that can skip a generation and strike them down even though they do not engage in any of the unhealthy practices

  We cannot take care of everyone because they come from a bad gene pool. 

you and dlphin keep talking about. By the standards the two of you have set forth, if you at anytime had, ingested, consumed, etc anything bad, then you would be barred from state run medical coverage.

That is just incorrect.  Did you ignore my reply to you.  Its not occasional use its the abuse of those products.  Having a pizza today is fine, just do not follow it up tomorrow with a couple of Big Macs & fries for lunch, then fried chicken for supper.

Report today in USA paper that 25% of kids vegetables come from french fries.  Now that is just freaking sad.   Eat your vegetables': For kids, it means fries