Same ole Marlins?

[Phishfan]

Is this selloff just more of the same? Do Marlins fans feel letdown after the excitement and money of a new stadium? I'd love to hear some insight from South FL.

[Landshark]

Marlins ownership robbed the City of Miami blind on this one.  Got the city to pitch in for the funding for a new stadium, then pulled the same stunt they've pulled two times before. 

I long for the days when the Marlins and Braves were contenders.

[Dave Gray]

Ramirez is playing way below what is expected of him, from what I understand.  I think the team realizes that they don't have the team to make a title run and that Hanley needs a change of scenery, so you might as well deal him for future wealth, than to let him waste years ineffectively.

[Brian Fein]

As probably the biggest Marlins fan here, I will speak up and give my OPINION.

Every year, around this time, teams decide whether they are in contention for a world series.  If not, they jettison their dead weight/free-agents-to-be in favor of young talent.  This is what the Marlins have done.

The Infante/Sanchez trade: This was a great deal for the Marlins.  They picked up 2 top notch prospects in Turner and Brantley to fill some badly needed holes (especially at catcher).  Both Infante and Sanchez were free agents at the end of this season (I know Sanchez was, not positive on Infante).  This was a great deal for the Marlins' future.

The Ramirez trade: Hanley Ramirez was to be the center point of this team.  After 90+ games, he's batting .245 and hit 14 HR's  Not lighting it up.  Considering he had some 33 million dollars attached to his name, this was a money saving move.  Basically moving Hanley freed up money they can spend on some other free agent next season to get better production out of that money.  I compare it to the Brandon Marshall trade: a big salary not producing with big numbers - he's gotta go.  I don't know much about the two potatoes they got in return, but I don't understand why they had to throw in Randy Choate to compensate for them.

The entire team is underperforming.  The management is sick of it.  You don't (and you won't) see them shopping Buehrle, Reyes, LoMo, or other guys.  I HOPE they keep Johnson, but it wouldn't surprise me if they move him this week as well.

These guys are trying to free up some money to be able to go after guys in the off season.  Josh Hamilton is available this fall.  There will be other key guys as well.  Rumor is they have their eyes on a 3B talent in the Rangers system named Olt, who would be a great fit.

The only mistake I see is the Carlos Lee trade.  That deal made sense at the time (was even nice to see) but makes them look like fools now.

The Marlins have gone 4-8 since the break and 8-12 in July.  This, after a 8-18 June.  The bullpen is responsible for a lot of it.  But the Marlins haven't been healthy since May.  They lost Bonifacio to a thumb injury for 6 or 8 weeks, and just when he's ready to return, they lose Stanton for a few.  Now, Boni is back and Stanton is almost ready, and they may make a late push.  And still, at 7 games out of wild card with 60-some-odd games to go, the Marlins are mailing it in.

I don't think its fair to say that this is the same-old Marlins firesale bullcrap.  No one says that after the Mariners dealt Ichiro.  There will probably be 6-10 more trades in the next week as the deadline approaches.  But the Marlins have a history, so its easy to jump to conclusions.

The fans just have to stick it out and hope the front office knows what they're doing.  I have no doubt of their ability to evaluate young talent.  At first, I was also pissed, and felt betrayed.  I look at the last-place Phillies, and see them re-sign Cole Hamels - they're not selling their guys off!  It was like they are saying "we got our stadium, middle finger to all of you! suckers!"  But after thinking about it, I assume there's a plan in place here, and building around a .245 hitter is not the way to make a winning team.

[Dave Gray]

More than any other sport, baseball seems to be the one where "shake-ups" can make an immediate difference.  Moving players and management can help right away.  Brian is right.

[DZA]

year after year Marlins Management continues to piss me off just like the Dolphins.   

I get tired of Marlins unloading great talent.  Trade Hanley Ramirez for 2 unproven talent  and what does Hanley do in the game for the his new Dodger team, he plays a good game. Now a rumor is that they want to deal Josh Johnson. 

Im not surprised because ever since the championship in 2003 i see fire sales  from this team more frequently.

[MaineDolFan]

Funny.  I said this:

Dark horses: Cincinnati (might break .500) and Pittsburgh.
Teams that will tank this season:  Milwaukee & Marlins

And all the Marlins fans here jumped on me.

To the point where I was accused of...

I'm going to bookmark this post for reference in September...

I know you hate the Marlins, but jeez.  A little realism would be nice as well.

REALISM.  Me.  A guy who used to be paid as a professional baseball scout was accused of not being real in his assessment of the upcoming baseball season.

Apparently - when I make these calls on other teams, it's just my baseball expertise coming in to play.  No one says a word when I spin this about my own team (I've said like things about the Red Sox), or when I make statements about how the Nationals and Pirates will surprise people - a few years ago when I called the Rays surge.  That's when Maine just "knows his stuff."  When I call 'em like I see 'em with the Marlins its:

Teams that will tank this season...Marlins?

Taking a quote from the AS cartoon, The Boondocks... "That's a bitch move, Santa."

So let me say, again, as I did in the original thread.  I don't hate the Marlins.  My evaluation of the team based on their team was this.  In this case, I was right. 

Again, with baseball, I'm right more often than I am wrong.  I will also point out that I picked the Twins to be in the World Series last year.  When I am wrong, I am oh-so wrong.

Nothing - and I mean nothing - I say when it comes to evaluation of team / prediction has to do with personal feeling towards a franchise.  Yet, somehow every time I say anything less than favorable about the darling Marlins I'm buried about it...

...yet, I'm always RIGHT.  I am pointing this out for a singular purpose.  Not to point out that I was correct in my prediction (to prove this is true, I also said Philly would win 100 games), but to point out that my stating positions about the Marlins isn't personal, yet the comments back to me always are.

Next time - try to take your personal feelings out of my very objective comments.  Note that I am usually correct in my assessments, note that I am making objective assessments which are not made on "hate of the franchise" and take them for what they are - a guy who knows the game pretty darn well making observations about how a team might fare this year.

I also said:

Tampa Bay would win 99 - they are on their way (51-47)
Detroit would win 94 - they are on their way (53-45)
Texas would win 95 - they are on their way (58-39)
Yankees would win 97 - they are on their way (59-39)
Angels would win 94 - they are on their way (54-45)
^^Those aren't "stretch" predictions.

I said Toronto would approach 90 wins.  They are on their way (48-49).  They just need a mini run and they end their season with a cup cake schedule including a lot of Boston and Baltimore.

I said Cleveland would approach 90 wins.  They are on their way (49-49)

St. Louis is on their way to the 90 win season I predicted (52-46)
San Fran is on it's way to it's 95 win season I predicted (55-43)
Atlanta is on it's way to it's 90 win season I predicted (54-44)
^^Again, nothing of a "stretch."

But I also said Washington would win 88 games.  They will probably surpass it (58-39).  I said Pittsburgh (55-42) and Cincinnati (58-40) would break .500 this season this year and surprise people, both will.  The Pirates haven't been over .500 since baseball was invented, or so it seems).

Along with the Marlins tanking this season, I also said the Twins (40-58), White Sox (53-45) and Brewers (44-53) would have rough seasons.  Was I "picking" on those teams, too?  Do I hate them as well?  I was clearly wrong about the White Sox (53-45), both nailed the other three teams. 

Of all my predictions for this season, I was off on TWO, Philly and the White Sox.  I'm right more often than I am wrong.  I know this game.  I know the minor league system like the back of my hand, still, because I have a passion for it.  It's like a sickness.  I really love this game, it's like following one large chess match all year.  I know the strengths and weaknesses of the veteran players and the free agents, I still study the game as though I were involved, it's my little hobby.  Everyone need a hobby, right?

If I were to make things personal, you would have noticed me giving the Red Sox a glimmer of hope.  They weren't even mentioned in my 2012 assessment, rightfully so.

Am I a little defensive?  Sure.  Have I been waiting for my opportunity to say this?  You betcha.  You folks have known me for a long time.  You should know better.

In the future, please stop taking every little thing I say about your precious Marlins so freaking personally.  Not one thing I say is based out of personal opinion, because I don't have a personal opinion about the Marlins.  It gets old.  Next season when I say the Marlins will circle the drain, which I very well may depending on how the off-season goes, feel free to take it for what it's worth - reality (ahem, excuse me) and unbiased, objective opinion.

That is all.  We now rejoin your lives, already in progress.

[Brian Fein]

Hey bud, you gotta admit, every talking head was looking at the Marlins in the offseason and saying "wow they are ready for a run."  You were the only one I heard saying otherwise.  That's where my reaction came from.

Additionally, in the past, you have clamored for the Marlins to get CONTRACTED!  Not just moved or trade a few players but NOT even a team anymore.

Surely you can see how that could translate to mild "hatred" by fans of said team.

However, you were correct in your prediction.  Kudos for that.  You were certainly in the minority.

As for my comment, I bridged a gap of assumption.  Sorry for that.  However, when you post predictions on a discussion forum, surely you do so to generate some discussion and counter opinions on your post, no?  That's all.

I don't think anyone could have predicted the collapse of Heath Bell, the subpar at-bats of Hanley Ramirez, injuries to Boni and Stanton.  These are all factors.  And they all hit at once.

So, congrats on being right, Maine!  The Marlins suck again.

[EDGECRUSHER]

If I didn't say the Marlins were overrated, I am kicking myself for not posting it. Let's recap:

1) Hanley has been mediocre/injured/unmotivated for awhile now, it's not just a one time thing. So, it was more wishful thinking than intelligent predictions that said he would bounce back to MVP.

2) Everyone knew once Jose Reyes got his money he would turn back into the slacking player he is. That's why there wasn't much of a market for him. If Reyes wasn't Latin, it's doubtful Miami even bothers to sign him.

3) Buerhle was a solid move. Nothing fancy, just an innings eater.

4) Heath Bell was 35, and while awesome, closers are easy to come by.

5) I would like to trash the Zambrano move, but he has done fairly well.

The Braves were better on paper and even the Nats were expected to get better, but maybe not this fast. So, even if it all came together, they still weren't guaranteed a playoff spot. The media hyped them up and they weren't good enough to deliver. Happens all the time in sports.

[Tenshot13]

I just want to say I was always with your Rays prediction from day one...that is all

[Sunstroke]

Funny.  I said this: 

When you feel the need to toot your own horn, you likely have your hands on the wrong instrument...