Mass stabbing at Texas school results in... zero deaths

[Spider-Dan]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/justice/texas-college-stabbing/

There was a mass stabbing at the CyFair campus of Lone Star College, in a Houston suburb.  Fourteen people were injured, and two remain in critical condition.  The attack was brought to a halt when a group of students tackled the assailant.

One of these students, Stephen Maida, was later interviewed by Fox News.  He was asked by Megyn Kelly what his thoughts were about allowing concealed carry of handguns on college campuses, and his response was, "There are some kids that are mature enough for it, but if you look at the kids at the school and more of the people that are around here, I wouldn't... seeing them with a gun would worry me more, and to know how easy they get provoked and how crazy they can be. This kid, instead of stabbing people, he could have been shooting all 14 people, and all 14 people could have been dead."

Like the school stabbing in China that happened the same day as the Sandy Hook massacre, a stark contrast is painted between these horrible acts when committed with knives vs. guns.

[Landshark]

Well put, Spider.  Guns aren't the problem.  It's the people who are carrying them that are the problem.  That's why they need to back off on stricter gun control laws so those who ARE mature enough to handle a gun can defend themselves.

The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

[CF DolFan]

As well the guy at UCF had plenty of guns and bombs and yet he is the only one that died.

Yesterday on the Today show they said that statistics show that almost 90% of people in prison for a (gun) weapons type charge got their weapons from a crime or the street.  I'm sure someone will say no big deal because ... but I found that pretty astonishing.

Since this is most certainly a gun debate I'll throw this out there. There are plenty of videos going around that show people shooting 3-10 mag clips vs 1- 30 mag clips. The difference is merely seconds even with a novice shooter.

[Sunstroke]

That's why they need to back off on stricter gun control laws so those who ARE mature enough to handle a gun can defend themselves.

That was really your take-away from Spidey's post?

[Fau Teixeira]

i agree with CF . any form of gun is the problem .. not just ones bought legally

We should repeal the 2nd amendment and ban private gun ownership altogether.

If that proves to be impossible the least we can do is to add a $5 per bullet tax for private purchases.

It's time we stopped messing around with a gun manufacturers advocacy group (NRA) and people that hold the 2nd amendment as more important than any other part of the constitution.

[Phishfan]

That was really your take-away from Spidey's post?

I was wondering the same thing.

[Phishfan]

i agree with CF . any form of gun is the problem .. not just ones bought legally

We should repeal the 2nd amendment and ban private gun ownership altogether.

If that proves to be impossible the least we can do is to add a $5 per bullet tax for private purchases.

It's time we stopped messing around with a gun manufacturers advocacy group (NRA) and people that hold the 2nd amendment as more important than any other part of the constitution.

I don't think I took the same thing from CF's post either. I'm pretty sure he is a gun supporter. Repealing the amendment is just an absurd takeaway from this. CF pointed out that 90% of people who are punished for gun crimes obtained their weapons through a crime or the street (I assume illegally). Repealing the amendment changes none of that. It just takes guns away from responsible people.

[CF DolFan]

I don't think I took the same thing from CF's post either. I'm pretty sure he is a gun supporter. Repealing the amendment is just an absurd takeaway from this. CF pointed out that 90% of people who are punished for gun crimes obtained their weapons through a crime or the street (I assume illegally). Repealing the amendment changes none of that. It just takes guns away from responsible people.

I think Fau knew what he did. People are still focused on the wrong thing IMO.

Mental health options is what society needs to focus on. Finding the people who need help and then making sure they get it. More times than not these people have shown signs before cracking. I have a family member who is 50, alcoholic and severely depressed. I can't tell you how many times they have skirted getting into major trouble. The sad state is there is absolutely nothing we can do with this person even though they have been Baker acted and released. They would like to get help but can't. This has been ongoing for 20 years. One day they they will crack and others are going to get hurt.  I'm happy it hasn't already happened.

Criminals were criminals before guns and they will be long after guns get taken away.

[Dave Gray]

Repealing the amendment changes none of that. It just takes guns away from responsible people.

While I'm not necessarily advocating repealing the 2nd amendment, I totally disagree with your statement above.  Outlawing guns would HUGELY decrease the amount of guns in criminal hands.  Sure, some criminals would still have guns, but the price, methods to get it, etc -- would all be greatly, greatly prohibitive.  You can steal a gun from your neighbor, which is illegal.  But if your neighbor doesn't have a gun, there's not one to steal.  The supply end of the chain would dip very, very low.  Even if you were a criminal that wanted a gun, it would raise the price to prohibitive levels, where your average "shoot up the school" weirdo wouldn't have the means to get one.

I think the real debate is this:

With every new regulation comes some loss of freedom and probably some increase in cost, in order to implement.  So, which regulations are worth those negatives?  It's a discussion that we need to have and not be afraid of a slippery slope.  I think that magazine size probably won't make a big difference in the vast majority of gun crimes, but in the cases of Newtown, it will.  A few seconds can mean life or death for many people.  I think that mental health and background checks are a must and a solution that will eventually get passed.  But I think the bigger problem is that we have a crazy gun culture.  We use tools made specifically for killing other people as a hobby.  That's a fucked up mentality and until we get to the root of that strange relationship, gun violence will continue to be a problem.

[Buddhagirl]

I think Fau knew what he did. People are still focused on the wrong thing IMO.

Mental health options is what society needs to focus on. Finding the people who need help and then making sure they get it. More times than not these people have shown signs before cracking. I have a family member who is 50, alcoholic and severely depressed. I can't tell you how many times they have skirted getting into major trouble. The sad state is there is absolutely nothing we can do with this person even though they have been Baker acted and released. They would like to get help but can't. This has been ongoing for 20 years. One day they they will crack and others are going to get hurt.  I'm happy it hasn't already happened.

Criminals were criminals before guns and they will be long after guns get taken away.

Hmmm...maybe if we had that Universal Healthcare the Republicans hate so much your relative could get the help he/she needs.

[Fau Teixeira]

CF made a point that seemed to me was ridiculous on its face. The base narrative that CF put out there and that I've seen the NRA make before was that if the majority of gun crime is committed by guns acquired illegally, what's the point of making rules for the legal gun users when the illegal ones are just gonna ignore them anyways?

Well the point is these regulations affect the supply side and not the demand side.

My solution takes care of both.  The time for private recreational gun ownership is past. Just because it's in the 2nd amendment doesn't make it right, it makes it legal but it down't make it moral. We should repeal the 2nd amendment, institute a complete firearm ban, offer to buy back existing firearms and then after a period of time penalize private gun ownership.

[Phishfan]

Good points Dave. I have one issue with your position though. Your focus is singularly on guns (and this ties in a bit with Spider's original post). While I think we can say they are deadly, so is a katana and it has a singular purpose as well if you want to think of this so simplisticaly. Guns (in this general discussion) do have other purposes and I think anyone who considers the broad topic objectively can understand the hunting and target shooting aspects. Now are some guns designed specifically as a tool of killing people, I agree.

Now you can argue guns may be more deadly, I'm not here for a dispute on that. But sweeping repeal of guns #1 is not going to happen and #2 is a dangerous position if you want to start dialogue.

[Phishfan]

I think outlawing guns would make a small dent in the supply. Initially it would be greater but they would still be around. I watched the first episode of Vice on HBO and they discussed how people in the Phillipines (who also have quite the connection to guns and gun violence) make homemade guns illegally. These people are sitting in shacks with scrap metal forging homemade guns. In a more indistrialized country such as ours, guns would still be manufactured and sold.

[Fau Teixeira]

I think using "ban all firearms and repeal the 2nd amendment" is about as valid a starting point as the NRA stance on handguns that summarized is 'ever teacher in every classroom should be armed, and every private individual should have a concealed carry permit and carry at all times"

one starts with all . .the other with none .. how is one reasonable and the other isn't

[Phishfan]

^^^ That is not a reasonable stance either and I never said it was. I have not seen anyone (here) say that or I would have addressed it as well. I'm only speaking to one side of the extreme here and I think that you immediately jumped to the other (when none of us involved took that stance) to explain yourself shows how fringe your position is.