Where is the Adrian Peterson talk?

[MikeO]

Looks like AP's season is over and Mort of ESPN thinks his time in Minny is over and he will get a severe NFL suspension once his case goes through the legal system.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24719247/report-vikings-do-not-foresee-adrian-peterson-in-their-future

[bsmooth]

I guess the old "innocent until proven guilty" is out the window, huh?

He admitted he did it. It is going to be up to a jury to decide if it was a normal amount of corporal punishment, or he crossed the line. Based on the photographs, and the age of the child, it appears to be abuse to me. We will have to see if any other information comes out to mitigate what the photos show.

[Dave Gray]

Stop defending douchebags, Brian.

Take a look at the pictures.

There is no situation acceptable to hit a 4 year old 15 times with a stick until he has open sores.

That's abuse.  He's admitting he did it.  Put him in jail and be done with it.

[Spider-Dan]

There is no situation acceptable to hit a 4 year old 15 times with a stick until he has open sores.

But it is perfectly acceptable to hit a a 4 year old 15 times with a stick if you don't cause open sores, which is the problem.

AP's crime is not that he hit his child; it's that he hit his child in excess.  There are a bunch of people out there who want to brand him a monster and compare him to Ray Rice, but the bottom line is that in America, hitting your child is a vigorously defended parental right.

[Fau Teixeira]

you keep bringing that up .. and yes .. hitting your kid is a parental right .. hitting them excessively is not.

scale matters in most things i fail to see your point.

[EKnight]

Spanking is not a "vigorously defended" right. It's already ILLEGAL in one state (Delaware, Senate bill 234), and most other states have laws that are similarly worded to Florida's, which makes the following definition of an illegal action: ""Harm" to a child occurs when the parent or other person responsible for the child's welfare inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical, mental, or emotional injury. The following factors must be considered in evaluating any injury: prior injuries; location; multiplicity; and type of trauma. Such injury include, but are not limited to willful acts that produce the following specific injuries: sprains, dislocations, or cartilage damage; bone or skull fractures; brain or spinal cord damage; intracranial hemorrhage or injury to other internal organs; asphyxiation, suffocation, or drowning; injury resulting from the use of a deadly weapon; burns or scalding; cuts, lacerations, punctures, or bites; permanent or temporary disfigurement; or permanent or temporary loss or impairment of a body part or function. "Willful" refers to the intent to perform an action, not to achieve a particular result or an intent to cause an injury."

Note that cuts and lacerations such as the ones Peterson's child received are specifically mentioned. -EK

[CF DolFan]

Stop defending douchebags, Brian.

Take a look at the pictures.

There is no situation acceptable to hit a 4 year old 15 times with a stick until he has open sores.

That's abuse.  He's admitting he did it.  Put him in jail and be done with it.

Rice needs counseling and not jail. You looking to break the pattern and not punish him IMO. Punishing him does nothing in this situation as he didn't see it as illegal to begin with. I know ignorance isn't an excuse but your talking about something that has been going on for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Need to break the ignorance.

[Spider-Dan]

Rice needs counseling and not jail. You looking to break the pattern and not punish him IMO. Punishing him does nothing in this situation as he didn't see it as illegal to begin with.

I think you mean Peterson, not Rice.

[Spider-Dan]

Spanking is not a "vigorously defended" right. It's already ILLEGAL in one state (Delaware, Senate bill 234),[...]

According to Delaware state AG Beau Biden, who pushed for this law, it does not prohibit spanking: “This will not do anything to interfere with a parent’s right or ability to parent as they see fit, but it also makes it clear that if you abuse a child in any way, shape or form, we’re going to have a statute that we’re going to be able to use to protect kids,” he stated.

Furthermore, even if we take you at your word, if spanking is only illegal in 1 out of 50 states, that's pretty vigorously defended.

[...]and most other states have laws that are similarly worded to Florida's, which makes the following definition of an illegal action: ""Harm" to a child occurs when the parent or other person responsible for the child's welfare inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical, mental, or emotional injury.

You're missing part of the statute, and a relevant part at that.

The statute against child abuse defines "abuse" as any willful act or threatened act that results in any physical, mental, or sexual injury or harm that causes or is likely to cause the child's physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired.

The term "significantly" is important, as it's basically a get-out-of-jail-free card for any corporal punishment advocates that are restrained enough not to leave marks.  Once you determine that "harm" must "significantly impair" the child's health in order to qualify as abuse, the definition of harm becomes substantially less relevant; to my knowledge, the laws are worded against child abuse, not child harm (as above).

[EKnight]

It's not that at all, and it doesn't surprise me that you purposely omit the section that spells out what that harm is especially for argumentative folks like yourself. Here it is again since you ignored it the first time:

"Such injury include, but are not limited to willful acts that produce the following specific injuries: sprains, dislocations, or cartilage damage; bone or skull fractures; brain or spinal cord damage; intracranial hemorrhage or injury to other internal organs; asphyxiation, suffocation, or drowning; injury resulting from the use of a deadly weapon; burns or scalding; cuts, lacerations, punctures, or bites; permanent or temporary disfigurement; or permanent or temporary loss or impairment of a body part or function"

Further, while Biden may have stated that, that's not how the law has been interpreted. Do a google search for Delaware and spanking law and you'll get multiple hits like this one, entitled "Child Welfare Legislation Outlaws Spanking" http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/de/201209210.asp

Finally, just because the practice isn't outright illegal in the other states, doesn't mean it's defended- vigorously or otherwise. That's quite a stretch, even for you. -EK

[MikeO]

Stop defending douchebags, Brian.

Take a look at the pictures.

There is no situation acceptable to hit a 4 year old 15 times with a stick until he has open sores.

That's abuse.  He's admitting he did it.  Put him in jail and be done with it.

Brian is always defending these athletes and then blames the media for the coverage. It's unreal how some people just worship these athletes and defend them no matter what they do.

AP is the scum of the earth for what he did to that 4 year old. He really is! And Reggie Bush is scum too and ain't far behind with his comments defending AP and adding that in some situations he will harshly discipline his 1 year old daughter........WTF is a 1 year old doing that you have to "harshly discipline" the poor kid. It's a friggin 1 year old! And then went on to add he would use a switch or a tree branch on her if the situation called for it

I don't know if AP belongs in jail but he should have his kid(s) taken away from him or lose visitation rights at the least for a little while. He isn't equipped to be around a child and that is clear as day. And if Reggie Bush is going public that he harshly disciplines a 1 year old, an investigation should take place and maybe he needs his kid taken away from him too. Because honestly that moron bragging about harshly disciplining a 1 year old and saying he would use a "switch/tree branch on her".... he clearly ain't got all his marbles either!  

[Spider-Dan]

It's not that at all, and it doesn't surprise me that you purposely omit the section that spells out what that harm is especially for argumentative folks like yourself. Here it is again since you ignored it the first time:

Instead of arguing over parts of statutes, why don't you just point me to the specific law you are talking about?  Then we won't have to worry about any more partial omissions.

Further, while Biden may have stated that, that's not how the law has been interpreted.

Then feel free to find me an author or sponsor of the law that says, "Yes, this law outlaws spanking, by design" or something to that effect.

You can't, because spanking is a vigorously defended parental right in America.  This is why the authors of the Delaware law insist that it doesn't apply to spanking or evade the question.

Finally, just because the practice isn't outright illegal in the other states, doesn't mean it's defended- vigorously or otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#United_States

In the majority of states, physical punishment by a parent remains legal under statutes making exceptions to the state's law on the crimes of assault, criminal battery, domestic violence and/or child abuse. These exceptions usually establish that no crime has been committed when certain actions are applied to a minor by that child's parent or legal caregiver. However, the line between permitted corporal punishment and punishment legally defined as abuse varies by state and is not always clear (laws typically allow "reasonable force" and "non-excessive corporal punishment"). Such language is often vague and is necessarily subjective and fact-driven, so that most cases present a fact issue for trial as to reasonableness or non-excessiveness. Examples of law permitting bodily punishment of children include two different articles of the Minnesota Legislature allow parents and teachers to use corporal punishment as a form of discipline by creating explicit exceptions to the state's child abuse statutes for "reasonable and moderate physical discipline."[45][46] Application of exceptions for physical punishment raise legal issues as well. In 2008 the Minnesota Supreme Court considered a case involved a man who had struck his 12-year-old son 36 blows with a maple paddle. The trial court held that this constituted abuse, but was reversed on appeal. In affirming the reversal, the Minnesota Supreme Court stated that "We are unwilling to establish a bright-line rule that the infliction of any pain constitutes either physical injury or physical abuse, because to do so would effectively prohibit all corporal punishment of children by their parents" and "it is clear to us that the Legislature did not intend to ban corporal punishment".[47][48]

I'd say specific carve-outs for spanking in assault, battery, domestic violence, and child abuse statutes indicates a pretty vigorous defense.  That's before you get to things like this:

ABCNews Poll: Most Approve of Spanking Kids

[masterfins]

Brian is always defending these athletes and then blames the media for the coverage. It's unreal how some people just worship these athletes and defend them no matter what they do.
 

I don't think that statement is completely fair.  The current "media" climate today is to rush to judge, and throw out the wildest claims to garner ratings, without actually gathering all the facts.  And you, MikeO, are often very quick to eat up whatever news story is published.  It's important to get all sides of the story before making a judgement.  Sometimes your initial feeling is correct, sometimes its not.

[Sunstroke]

I don't think that statement is completely fair.  The current "media" climate today is to rush to judge, and throw out the wildest claims to garner ratings, without actually gathering all the facts.  And you, MikeO, are often very quick to eat up whatever news story is published.  It's important to get all sides of the story before making a judgement.  Sometimes your initial feeling is correct, sometimes its not.

And the truth was heard throughout the land...

[MikeO]

I don't think that statement is completely fair.  The current "media" climate today is to rush to judge, and throw out the wildest claims to garner ratings, without actually gathering all the facts.  And you, MikeO, are often very quick to eat up whatever news story is published.  It's important to get all sides of the story before making a judgement.  Sometimes your initial feeling is correct, sometimes its not.

I will post a link to a story and comment on it....sure. But I don't attack the media 99.9% of the time and blame them for every little thing. There is a BIG difference!