It's official: Hillary vs. Trump

[Spider-Dan]

You're assuming and projecting.

Republican Joe Scarborough said, "The GOP nominee was clearly suggesting that some of the “Second Amendment people” among his supporters could kill his Democratic opponent were she to be elected."  MANY other mainstream media outlets have drawn the same conclusion.  The Secret Service has spoken with Trump about his comments.

And you're saying that anyone who interpreted his comments as a suggestion of assassination (i.e. Fox News) is just as crazy as the people who believe the Clintons have a secret death squad that kills their political enemies.

OK.

Seems like someone did say that.

I read that as "If Trump did x it would be as big of a scandal as Watergate," not "Trump did x."

But let's run with your interpretation.  "Trump was the one who had the DNC servers hacked" is not equivalent to "The Clintons have had a secret death squad that has been assassinating political enemies since the '90s," not least because there isn't even any proof these people were assassinated to begin with, much less by the Clintons.  There is historical precedence in this country for a high-level politician stealing opposition data (Watergate); there is no precedence in this country for secret political assassins.

It's like saying that believing the IRS was targeting conservatives is the same as believing that 9/11 was an inside job planned by Dubya.  It's false equivalence.

[Tenshot13]

Republican Joe Scarborough said, "The GOP nominee was clearly suggesting that some of the “Second Amendment people” among his supporters could kill his Democratic opponent were she to be elected."  MANY other mainstream media outlets have drawn the same conclusion.  The Secret Service has spoken with Trump about his comments.

And you're saying that anyone who interpreted his comments as a suggestion of assassination (i.e. Fox News) is just as crazy as the people who believe the Clintons have a secret death squad that kills their political enemies.

OK.
I read that as "If Trump did x it would be as big of a scandal as Watergate," not "Trump did x."

But let's run with your interpretation.  "Trump was the one who had the DNC servers hacked" is not equivalent to "The Clintons have had a secret death squad that has been assassinating political enemies since the '90s," not least because there isn't even any proof these people were assassinated to begin with, much less by the Clintons.  There is historical precedence in this country for a high-level politician stealing opposition data (Watergate); there is no precedence in this country for secret political assassins.

It's like saying that believing the IRS was targeting conservatives is the same as believing that 9/11 was an inside job planned by Dubya.  It's false equivalence.

A false equivalence of two false statements?  Seems equivalent to me.

[Spider-Dan]

Sure, as long as you are willing to agree that "Hillary is secretly in the tank for the big banks" and "Donald Trump is actually a KKK Grand Wizard who plans to sterilize all Mexicans" are also equivalent.

[CF DolFan]

Ok ... I'm done with the he said she said as it doesn't even stay on the same topic anyway.

Simple question that I have. I think we can all agree that quality of life for most people is worse than it was 10 years ago so what will she do differently than what Obama has been doing for the last 8 years? If your answer is we are doing better then please don't bother answering.


Median Household Income

2005 --$56,058
2014   --$53,657

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/

[Spider-Dan]

Simple question that I have. I think we can all agree that quality of life for most people is worse than it was 10 years ago so what will she do differently than what Obama has been doing for the last 8 years? If your answer is we are doing better then please don't bother answering.

Great question and I'm happy to discuss this topic.  There's a lot to unpack in this statement.

First, Obama has been President for a little over 7.5 years, not 10 years, so I think the premise of the question is a bit flawed.  Comparing to 10 years ago would be a comparison to the peak of our bubble economy that was built on matchsticks.  I think if you were to ask people in 1938 if they were better off than they were in 1928, an even greater number would answer no; that doesn't mean that FDR was a failure, only that it takes time to recover from such a serious economic downturn.

Second, to answer your question: hopefully very little!  The last two Democratic Presidents have left the economy in much better shape than they received it, so I anticipate that Hillary would continue similar policies.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Simple question that I have. I think we can all agree that quality of life for most people is worse than it was 10 years ago so what will she do differently than what Obama has been doing for the last 8 years? If your answer is we are doing better then please don't bother answering.

Not sure why you choose 10 years.  My take we are better off today that we were 8 years ago. If not for the 22nd amendment I would have no problem  voting for Obama for a third term.

But in this election that is almost irrelevent.  Even if we accept your flawed premise of a slightly lowered standard of living and your premise that Hillary Clinton is the same person as Obama and we ignore that much of what Obama has tried to do has been blocked by Congress, it doesn't matter.  It might have mattered in a Hillary vs. Jeb Bush election. 

The unhinged racist sexist demagogue that was nominated by the GOP has made Obama and Hillary irrelevant.  With every passing day it is literally in a choice between Trump and whatever is behind door number 2, you have too pick door number two. 

[masterfins]

So I guess no one cares about the Muslim parents that Donnie insulted less than two weeks ago.  How about a poll as to how many more Trump gaffes (for lack of a better word) will occur before election day?  I figure about six.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So I guess no one cares about the Muslim parents that Donnie insulted less than two weeks ago.  How about a poll as to how many more Trump gaffes (for lack of a better word) will occur before election day?  I figure about six.

Six?  He does that in a week.  Since insulting that family, he has the comment that could be seen as calling for a political assassination, picked a fight with a baby (literally), failed to endorse Ryan, accused the president of founding ISIS, and was unaware Russia already went in to the Ukraine.   

[Sunstroke]

How about a poll as to how many more Trump gaffes (for lack of a better word) will occur before election day?  I figure about six.

I'm with Hoodie...I'll definitely take the over. From what I can tell, the TGR (Trump Gaffe Ratio) can be determined by projecting the number of times that Trump will open his mouth, and then multiply that number by 0.8.

[Spider-Dan]

I'm setting the over-under on number of Presidential debates before Trump mentions Monica Lewinsky or Vince Foster (during a debate) at 1.5.

[CF DolFan]

So no answer? If you had said things were better "socially speaking" I wouldn't agree but could understand. Financially you are off your rockers and go to attacking the number of years I chose instead of answering the economy question I just asked.

I picked 10 because that is the number that popped in my head and a "typical" time frame that people use.

If we go back only 8 years the margins are even worse than the numbers I used.

2007   $57,936
2008   $57,211

Our National debt has more than doubled under Obama (and continues to grow) and people are making less money than when he took office 8 freaking years ago. If you think this is OK then I would assume you think it's ok to not pay your bills. Most of us have had few, if any raises, since Obama took office and a large portion have taken pay cuts with more responsibilities.

So if this is your idea of Utopia then it must not take very much to impress you guys. Congrats to the women in your lives.

[Fau Teixeira]

It's ironic that the conservatives here have watched GWB put us into the worst recession since the 30s, follow it up with republican mandated austerity cuts as we were in a recovery all the while resisting even simple items like a plan to repair and rebuild infrastructure. (bridges, roads, etc) .. and then have the complete lack of self awareness to complain about the economy.

Look in the mirror.

[Spider-Dan]

So no answer?

I directly answered your question:

Second, to answer your question: hopefully very little!

I'm not sure how much more direct I can be.

If we go back only 8 years the margins are even worse than the numbers I used.

2007   $57,936
2008   $57,211

That's another issue with those numbers: if you take them at face value, "most Americans" were still doing quite well in 2008 and 2009 when we were in the middle of the worst economic collapse in 75 years.  It makes one wonder how useful that statistic is as a measurement of the health of the economy.

Our National debt has more than doubled under Obama (and continues to grow) and people are making less money than when he took office 8 freaking years ago.

Obama's most recent budget deficit is over $1 trillion (with a T) lower than the deficit he inherited from GWB in 2009:

Most of us have had few, if any raises, since Obama took office and a large portion have taken pay cuts with more responsibilities.

Well, that's because he was handed the second-worst economic catastrophe in the history of the republic, and it takes time to improve things.  I am in favor of continuing the improvement path Obama has put us on, rather than reversing it with more GOP policies.

[Tenshot13]

I directly answered your question:

I'm not sure how much more direct I can be.
That's another issue with those numbers: if you take them at face value, "most Americans" were still doing quite well in 2008 and 2009 when we were in the middle of the worst economic collapse in 75 years.  It makes one wonder how useful that statistic is as a measurement of the health of the economy.
Obama's most recent budget deficit is over $1 trillion (with a T) lower than the deficit he inherited from GWB in 2009:


Well, that's because he was handed the second-worst economic catastrophe in the history of the republic, and it takes time to improve things.  I am in favor of continuing the improvement path Obama has put us on, rather than reversing it with more GOP policies.

National Debt
GWB - $10,024,724,896,912.49
BHO - $19,391,704,027,667.12

Total term % Increase
GWB - 76.7%
BHO - 93.4%

What are you talking about?

YR-----PREZ-------------------ADD/SUB DEBT----------CUMULATIVE DEBT-------YR+---TOTALTERM+---END OF TERM % TOTAL DEBT
2001   George Walker Bush   $133,285,202,313.20   $5,807,463,412,200.06   2.3%   76.7%   24.0%
2002   George Walker Bush   $420,772,553,397.10   $6,228,235,965,597.16   7.2%   76.7%   24.0%
2003   George Walker Bush   $554,995,097,146.46   $6,783,231,062,743.62   8.9%   76.7%   24.0%
2004   George Walker Bush   $595,821,633,586.70   $7,379,052,696,330.32   8.8%   76.7%   24.0%
2005   George Walker Bush   $553,656,965,393.18   $7,932,709,661,723.50   7.5%   76.7%   24.0%
2006   George Walker Bush   $574,264,237,491.73   $8,506,973,899,215.23   7.2%   76.7%   24.0%
2007   George Walker Bush   $500,679,473,047.25   $9,007,653,372,262.48   5.9%   76.7%   24.0%
2008   George Walker Bush   $1,017,071,524,650.01   $10,024,724,896,912.49   11.3%   76.7%   24.0%
2009   Barack Hussein Obama   $1,885,104,106,599.26   $11,909,829,003,511.75   18.8%   93.4%   48.3%
2010   Barack Hussein Obama   $1,651,794,027,380.04   $13,561,623,030,891.79   13.9%   93.4%   48.3%
2011   Barack Hussein Obama   $1,228,717,297,665.36   $14,790,340,328,557.15   9.1%   93.4%   48.3%
2012   Barack Hussein Obama   $1,275,901,078,828.74   $16,066,241,407,385.89   8.6%   93.4%   48.3%
2013   Barack Hussein Obama   $671,942,119,311.43   $16,738,183,526,697.32   4.2%   93.4%   48.3%
2014   Barack Hussein Obama   $1,085,887,854,036.50   $17,824,071,380,733.82   6.5%   93.4%   48.3%
2015   Barack Hussein Obama   $326,546,285,750.51   $18,150,617,666,484.33   1.8%   93.4%   48.3%
2016   Barack Hussein Obama   $1,241,086,361,182.79   $19,391,704,027,667.12   6.8%   93.4%   48.3%


http://www.polidiotic.com/by-the-numbers/us-national-debt-by-year/

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

What are you talking about?

Really comes down to how you measure 2009. 

(1) Do you take a snap shot of what the debt level was at noon on Jan 20 2009 and say any debt accumulated from the moment on is Obama's

OR

(2) Do you consider the debt accumulated as a result of budgets signed by Bush to belong to Bush and debt accumulated as a result of budgets signed by Obama to belong to Obama.