Kaepernick not standing for National Anthem

[Spider-Dan]

As a society, when we adopt something, we automatically have to understand that there are downsides to everything. Unarmed, innocent people die everyday for thousands of reasons. Innocent people die from police. Innocent people die from automobiles. Innocent people die from cancer.

We try to make safer cars.
We try to cure cancer.
But when it comes to police, suddenly There's Always Going To Be Some Bad Apples so we shouldn't bother trying to do anything about it?

And when I say "we shouldn't bother trying to do anything about it," I mean that even in the cases where conservatives agree that an injustice has occurred (like the three I cited earlier), those cops still keep their jobs! (to say nothing of going to prison for murder)  Again, there's no such thing as "one bad apple" if YOU KEEP THE APPLE.

If you could snap your fingers and make this problem go away. Tomorrow the liberals would find another "cause" to start complaining about and blaming someone for.

Well, yes.  This isn't the only problem in the country.

It's not like conservatives stopped complaining forever after SCOTUS ruled in favor of gutting the Voting Rights Act.

[pondwater]

Is protesting via this method ever acceptable?  (Is it disrespect to the military, etc)

It's his right in this country. So I guess in a sense it's acceptable. But normally in life, regardless of what path you choose, people are going to disagree, bitch, and moan about it. Like they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one!

Is the protest sensible in this particular situation?  (Is sitting for BLM a good use of a protest)

If he wants to. Just don't whine when people criticize you for it.

Is what is being protested a valid issue?  (Is BLM even a valid concern)

It's valid to an extent. But then again, so is drunk driving, lung cancer, and gang violence. Like I said earlier, black people aren't being gunned down in the streets like wild animals. The vast majority of these incidents that have been hyped up by BLM and the media are fully grown adults doing stupid shit that they should have known to stop doing.

Is the person protesting a hypocrite?  (Kaep wearing pig socks, etc.)

Don't give a shit about the socks. However, I read somewhere that his team was penalized because he called another player on the other team a fuckin' "N"igger. I would say that would qualify as racist hypocrite. Especially from a black guy with lighter skin than me, who was raised by white people. Oh, the irony!

[pondwater]

We try to make safer cars.
We try to cure cancer.
But when it comes to police, suddenly There's Always Going To Be Some Bad Apples so we shouldn't bother trying to do anything about it?

And when I say "we shouldn't bother trying to do anything about it," I mean that even in the cases where conservatives agree that an injustice has occurred (like the three I cited earlier), those cops still keep their jobs! (to say nothing of going to prison for murder)  Again, there's no such thing as "one bad apple" if YOU KEEP THE APPLE.

OK, you named 3. Now go back and name all the ones that were doing stupid shit and breaking the law. But yet the media and BLM hyped all those up like there is some kind of black genocide conspiracy going on. If your argument is that "NO" innocent people should ever be killed by law enforcement, then I don't know what to tell you. Except, good luck with that!

[CF DolFan]

"Black Lives Matter" has an implicit "too" at the end of it.

Saying "All Lives Matter" is being dismissive of the problem.

I must have overlooked this earlier and I disagree that anything other than the obvious is implied. If all Black Lives Matter was actually Black Lives Matter too then they would get a ton more support. Not one time have I heard that.

BLM is a "black only" movement against police that spurned from the trials of Trayvon and Michael Brown. Both of which were proven to be justified.  It's so "only" that even if another black person says that all lives matter they are attacked for being an Uncle Tom or whatever. You either agree the white man is holding you down or you are not black enough. Spider has done that in this very thread.  

There needs to be more black leaders like Charles Barkley who aren't afraid to speak the truth.
"We as black people are never going to be successful, not because of you white people, but because of other black people. When you are black, you have to deal with so much crap in your life from other black people," Barkley said.

Barkley, a native of Leeds, [Alabama,] said African Americans are too concerned with street cred than true success and that's holding the community back.
 
"For some reason we are brainwashed to think, if you're not a thug or an idiot, you're not black enough. If you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligent, and don't break the law, you're not a good black person. It's a dirty, dark secret in the black community.

"There are a lot of black people who are unintelligent, who don't have success. It's best to knock a successful black person down because they're intelligent, they speak well, they do well in school, and they're successful. It's just typical BS that goes on when you're black, man."

[Spider-Dan]

OK, you named 3. Now go back and name all the ones that were doing stupid shit and breaking the law.

I'm happy to name off other people who were executed for the capital crime of disrespecting a police officer, but ultimately, what's the point?  Even when I list cases of people who were CLEARLY not breaking any law and CLEARLY did not deserve to be killed, the responses are always "you can't do anything about a few bad apples" (which apparently includes firing or prosecuting the bad apples) and "stop complaining" and "what about black-on-black crime?"

Again, this is why BLM exists.  Even when a 12-year-old boy with a toy gun (in an open carry state!) is gunned down in under two seconds, there is still HEAVY resistance towards any sort of accountability for the police.  When plainly innocent victims cannot obtain justice, what hope is there for the shoplifter who is summarily executed?  Or the person who is driving with an expired car registration and is shot?  Any minor infraction can immediately become a capital offense.

[Spider-Dan]

It's so "only" that even if another black person says that all lives matter they are attacked for being an Uncle Tom or whatever.

First off: BLM protested the death of Dylan Noble, a white teen who was killed by police in CA.

But more to the point, I fundamentally reject the premise of your statement.  When people say, "Save the rainforests," they aren't saying, "Screw all other forests."  They are emphasizing their priority.

You either agree the white man is holding you down or you are not black enough. Spider has done that in this very thread.

I never said that Jerry Rice or Michael Jordan "aren't black enough."  I said that they lack courage on social issues, primarily because they have always been focused on protecting their personal brand, instead of using their influence as a platform for change.

There needs to be more black leaders like Charles Barkley who aren't afraid to speak the truth.

There are an awful lot of people who don't agree with "black leaders" until said leaders decide to criticize black people.  Then they love them.

For example, I'm relatively certain that you would be less enthusiastic to hear that Barkley said that Southerners hide behind the Bible because they just don't like gay people and that discrimination against gays can absolutely be equated with discrimination against blacks.

[CF DolFan]

For example, I'm relatively certain that you would be less enthusiastic to hear that Barkley said that Southerners hide behind the Bible because they just don't like gay people and that discrimination against gays can absolutely be equated with discrimination against blacks.

No not at all ... I've been a fan of his every since he threw the guy through the window in downtown Orlando. I might disagree with him on something, as I do other people I know personally, but it doesn't cause me to loose my respect for him. 

[CF DolFan]

It's funny to me that people keep comparing him to Ali and now the woman who was married to Ali and a part of his protests comes out against Kaepernick's protest. Ouch ... that has got to hurt.

Muhammad Ali’s ex-wife tells Colin Kaepernick to ‘get off his high horse
“What he’s doing right now is not heroic,” Khalilah says. “I would love to meet with him or talk to him on the phone to help share his message in a better way.”

Khalilah was married to the former heavyweight champion when he refused to fight in the Vietnam War, and she says she advised him on that decision.

“I helped Muhammad decide whether he was going to the army or going to jail,” Khalilah said. “He listened to my every word. You see the impact that had on our nation? Colin could absolutely have the same impact if he made the right decisions to really make a difference.”

If Khalilah was advising Kaepernick, she says she would first tell him to apologize for disrespecting the American flag. Like many others before her, she does not believe the act itself accomplishes anything.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/muhammad-ali%E2%80%99s-ex-wife-tells-colin-kaepernick-to-%E2%80%98get-off-his-high-horse%E2%80%99/ar-AAiw8vA?li=BBnba9I

[Dave Gray]

This is a logical fallacy of appealing to authority.  Ali's wives are no more qualified to evaluate this situation than anyone else.  Or Jerry Rice or Barkley or anyone else.  Cherry picking through those that agree or disagree with his decision accomplishes nothing.

[Sunstroke]

This is a logical fallacy of appealing to authority.  Ali's wives are no more qualified to evaluate this situation than anyone else. 

Agree completely, and my first impression after reading her quotes is that she seems to be all about herself, rather than others.

[Spider-Dan]

There is a poetic irony in Ali's ex-wife condemning an athlete for "disrespecting the American flag" by refusing to stand for the anthem.  The proper way to pay respect to this country is to refuse to serve when drafted into the military!

All kidding aside, I think it's easy to read too much into this.  She's basically on team All Lives Matter:

“I will help him meet the groups that will fight with him, donate to charities of all people — not just minorities — because we cannot single anyone out,” said Khalilah. “If he wants isolation to end, he needs to prove that he cares about all people, and not just his people."

Once again: "Let's find a cure for breast cancer" does not mean "Every other cancer is just fine with me."

[CF DolFan]

Looks like people are serious about turning the tvs off over this crap. Interesting to see but if my Facebook page is any indication ratings will continue to drop next week. Especially for teams like San Fran and Miami who have been the biggest ones being called out. Could mean a boost for teams like the Giants who went the opposite route.

I did find this funny though. Colin Kaepernick was booed when he took the field with just 2:21 remaining in the game as the crowd began a “USA! USA! USA!” chant.
LOL ... they are chanting at him as if he is a foreign enemy. Oh yes ... his message was lost a long time ago.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/13/first-monday-night-football-game-of-the-season-produces-weak-ratings/#ixzz4KALEHtjS

If the NFL was hoping that Monday Night Football would put an end to their Week 1 ratings slump, they’re going to be quite disappointed.

For any number of reasons – national anthem protests, blow out games, competition from other networks – ESPN's doubleheader on Monday night failed to drum up as much interest as years past. The Pittsburgh Steelers dominated the Washington Redskins in a 38-16 rout while the Los Angeles Rams, making the NFL’s first appearance in the L.A. market in 20 years, got trounced by the San Francisco 49ers 28-0.

The Steelers vs. Redskins game scored a 9.1 in Nielsen's NLSN -1.38% metered market ratings while the 49ers vs. Rams posted a 7.1, according to Deadline. The early game was down 7% from 2015′s MNF opener while Game 2 fell a whopping 25% with San Francisco viewers actually outnumbering L.A. That’s not the start the league was hoping to have in the country’s second-largest media market.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brandonkatz/2016/09/13/nfls-monday-night-football-takes-a-sack-in-the-ratings/#5d9694168964

[Dave Gray]

Facebook isn't a very good indication.  You are likely friends with people who are of your same mindset and your ads and sponsored news stories are tailored to positions you have.  My facebook looks way different than your does, I assure you.

In terms of protests, in general, I consider the idea of standing up against your country when it does things you consider to be against itself, patriotic in itself.  Whether you agree with it, or not...

This is what protests are for -- using the spotlight to get people talking or offended.  ...good, be offended.  That's the idea.

[Spider-Dan]

Looks like people are serious about turning the tvs off over this crap. Interesting to see but if my Facebook page is any indication ratings will continue to drop next week. Especially for teams like San Fran and Miami who have been the biggest ones being called out. Could mean a boost for teams like the Giants who went the opposite route.

I did find this funny though. Colin Kaepernick was booed when he took the field with just 2:21 remaining in the game as the crowd began a “USA! USA! USA!” chant.
LOL ... they are chanting at him as if he is a foreign enemy. Oh yes ... his message was lost a long time ago.

Counterpoint:

Colin Kaepernick Tops Jersey Sales In NFL

Colin Kapernick is not even listed as the starting quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers as of September 6, but there is no player in the National Football League selling more jerseys than the backup QB. As of this morning, the top seller on NFLShop.com is a Kaepernick Nike Scarlet Game Jersey, besting Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliot and New York Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham as the most popular jersey leading into the 2016 NFL regular season.

Kaepernick jerseys have experienced a steady climb in popularity since the QB decided that he would not stand for the National Anthem during 49ers preseason games. His explanation was that he would not stand up because he refused to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

This has certainly struck a chord with a wide demographic, causing some people to burn Kaepernick jerseys and many others to buy the jersey of a QB they have never before supported for a team they could care less about. The purchase of a Kaepernick jersey has become much more than a sign of support for a football player; people believe that buying a jersey is backing a cause.

So there is that.

[CF DolFan]

Facebook isn't a very good indication.  You are likely friends with people who are of your same mindset and your ads and sponsored news stories are tailored to positions you have.  My facebook looks way different than your does, I assure you.

In terms of protests, in general, I consider the idea of standing up against your country when it does things you consider to be against itself, patriotic in itself.  Whether you agree with it, or not...

This is what protests are for -- using the spotlight to get people talking or offended.  ...good, be offended.  That's the idea.

I have a lot of very liberal friends and relatives as well as gay, lesbian and of color. I've got more than a dozen black and or latino relatives I see reguraly. I will say that the my average liberal representatives do seem to have more respect than does silly people likke Kaepernick.

Anyway you slice it ... he represents a very small portion of the league and society so it seems like he is the one who doesn't get it.