Greatest Dynasty Ever?

[Tenshot13]

On that note Harlem Globe Trotters have an impressive win loss record.

Forgot about the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

[Spider-Dan]

I mean, if we are going to ignore recruiting advantages and level playing fields, then the Globetrotters are the greatest dynasty in sports.

[Phishfan]

First, I think we would have to qualify what the Globetrotters do as an actual competitive sport rather than just entertainment such as the WWE.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Thanks for expanding the discussion beyond the US.

Fair to say Aussie Football is a lot closer to rugby than to American or Canadian football?

mmm, hard to describe really, it's a lot easier if you just see it for yourself. It is a lot more fluid game than American/Canadian football and the way the game itself has evolved over the years you could say there are elements from professional basketball, soccer and rugby there, while the professionalism, promotion, management and general organization side of it (and relatively speaking for Australian sport the money side of it with a $2 billion TV rights deal) seem to be getting close to the NFL. One major difference would be that there are no privately owned teams.

I will say the NFL has had a major influence over the last 20 years, it seems like every year coaches (and players, and probably administrators) are over there in the offseason, not just to enjoy the games but get ideas to feed into our game. In the last two years concussion management has also become a major issue here, while in the past I know of some teams who had loose ties with NFL teams (like the Adelaide Crows with the New York Giants) to share thoughts on sports science/fitness, coaching, team management and administration.

[BuccaneerBrad]

First, I think we would have to qualify what the Globetrotters do as an actual competitive sport rather than just entertainment such as the WWE.

Agreed.  How can you signify a won/loss record of any kind in a field where matches are pre-determined?

[Spider-Dan]

The outcome of Globetrotter games is not predetermined; they have lost several games, though it is rare.  (Keep in mind that one of the catalysts for integration in the NBA was when the all-black Globetrotter team legitimately beat George Mikan and the all-white Minneapolis Lakers.)

The closest comparison I can think of is the NBA All-Star Game: it isn't "fixed," but defenders permit a certain amount of hijinks for entertainment value.  That said, when the Globetrotters' opponent has the ball, they are usually playing 100% legit.

If any of you are familiar with the And1 Mixtape Tour, that's also similar.  The games are legitimate, but when you have a massive skill advantage over your opponent, you have bandwidth to clown.

[Phishfan]

You cannot with a straight face try to tell me that a Globetrotters game is legitimate. You my friend need to consider how those "hijinks" are illegal half the time but don't get called. This is no more a sport than the WWE.

[Spider-Dan]

Yes, the Globetrotters, And1 Mixtape, etc. have lax rule enforcement.  I'm not disputing that.  But the games aren't fixed, and if the score is close at the end, you will see the pros start playing real basketball.  Fun and games are fun and games, but not if they are in danger of actually losing.  The WWE is fully scripted and is not a close comparison.

I would also like to point out that there are legal implications to presenting a sports contest as genuine when the contestants have agreed on a predetermined outcome.  The games are not fixed.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I only mentioned the Globe Trotters as a response to the fictional team in the mighty ducks. 

As for comparing to the NBA all star game.  The Nevada gaming commission views the all star game to be competitive enough to allow betting on it, they however consider the Globe Trotters to be too rigged to allow betting. 

[Dave Gray]

Is it that the Globetrotters are rigged or that the odds are so long that they choose not to take the bet.  That happens in the NCAA tourney every year and those games are definitely legit.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Is it that the Globetrotters are rigged or that the odds are so long that they choose not to take the bet.  That happens in the NCAA tourney every year and those games are definitely legit.

The games are definitely rigged.  While the Generals have won some games that was generally considered a mistake with the winning coach being scolded.  Little doubt if the Generals were to make a habit of it, the winning coach would not be rewarded with a pay raise but would be fired.

Much like with WWE.  The exact sequence of events is not scripted and it is possible but extremely rare for the actors to mess up and the wrong side to accidentally win.  Do this once and okay, lets fix what went wrong, do it on a regular basis and you will need to find a new job.

[Spider-Dan]

Hoodie, Globetrotter games are not "fixed."  They have 330 losses.  (And again, there are legal implications to a professional team throwing games.)

I'm not sure why you guys have such a hard time believing that a team that easily defeated an NCAA champion would have some sort of problem beating rec-league sub-D-League-level basketball players any time they felt like it, but it's true.

Globetrotter games don't need to be fixed.  It is fair to say that the lack of rule enforcement when the Globetrotters have the ball (when playing the Generals) works in their favor, but when the Generals have the ball the game is 100% legit.  In fact, it is the ability to showcase one's talents on offense that is the primary motivation for players agreeing to suit up for the Generals... in the hopes of impressing a D-League or foreign team enough to get a shot.

[Baba Booey]

Hoodie, Globetrotter games are not "fixed."  They have 330 losses.  (And again, there are legal implications to a professional team throwing games.)

I'm not sure why you guys have such a hard time believing that a team that easily defeated an NCAA champion would have some sort of problem beating rec-league sub-D-League-level basketball players any time they felt like it, but it's true.

Globetrotter games don't need to be fixed.  It is fair to say that the lack of rule enforcement when the Globetrotters have the ball (when playing the Generals) works in their favor, but when the Generals have the ball the game is 100% legit.  In fact, it is the ability to showcase one's talents on offense that is the primary motivation for players agreeing to suit up for the Generals... in the hopes of impressing a D-League or foreign team enough to get a shot.

Globetrotter's games vs the Washington Generals are clearly fixed and I wouldn't even call it basketball honestly. It's a parody of basketball just like WWF is a parody of real Olympic wrestling.  Now when they play a college team those aren't fixed and the Globetrotter's are adult men playing 18 and 19 year old kids so the fact they beat a Mich St or Syracuse on an occasion is not surprising as I am sure they can "turn it on" and play for real when they want to. But when they are dumping water on guys and throwing the confetti and stuff those games are clearly rigged and its a parody of basketball. It's no different than Roller Derby at the end of the day!

[Spider-Dan]

I think what we are really discussing here is terminology.

Pro wrestling is a good example.  When people say that pro wrestling is "fake"... those aren't "fake" chairs that people are being hit with or "fake" tables they are being slammed through.  They aren't bleeding "fake" blood.  There are no hidden wires when they jump off of a "fake" ladder 20 feet to the "fake" floor; that is real gravity and real concrete.  Movies are "fake," pro wrestling is scripted.  The distinction is important.

So Globetrotter games are not "fixed," because fixed means the teams collude to choose a predetermined winner.  Do they play under different rules than the NBA?  Sure, but so does the And1 Mixtape tour.  That doesn't mean their games are fixed, either.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Of those 330 loses only 12 have occurred in the last 45 years.  Maybe in 1928 the game wasn't fixed, today it is.