Equal pay day

[dolphins4life]

I never understood this.

I have heard the pay gap debunked numerous times  It is due to the differences in jobs chosen, hours worked, and other factors.

Isn't pay discrimination already illegal?

I also don't get Megan Rapinoe's claims about equal pay.  Isn't sports pay based on the income your league generates?   

Is there information that I am missing from the debate?

[Spider-Dan]

The fact that jobs traditionally filled by women pay less than jobs traditionally filled by men does not "debunk" the pay gap, but rather reinforces the evidence for its existence.  Similarly, the fact that the careers of women are hindered by bearing children - something that benefits us all as a society - is another example of the pay gap.

Lastly, I don't see why the soccer US Women's National Team (of which Rapinoe is a member) should be paid less than the US Men's National Team.  Notwithstanding the fact that the former is FAR more successful than the latter, the national teams receive funding from our government.

[dolphins4life]

The fact that jobs traditionally filled by women pay less than jobs traditionally filled by men does not "debunk" the pay gap, but rather reinforces the evidence for its existence.  Similarly, the fact that the careers of women are hindered by bearing children - something that benefits us all as a society - is another example of the pay gap.

Lastly, I don't see why the soccer US Women's National Team (of which Rapinoe is a member) should be paid less than the US Men's National Team.  Notwithstanding the fact that the former is FAR more successful than the latter, the national teams receive funding from our government.

The pay gap claim is that women are paid less than men for doing the SAME work.  

Having children doesn't always benefit us as a society, either.  Ever heard of overpopulation?  Or people having children when they can't afford them.  But that's another story.

Also, do you think the WNBA players should make as much as the NBA players?

[Spider-Dan]

Having children is necessary for our society to continue.  Someone needs to be working and paying taxes 50 years from now, and the United States is not even remotely close to being overpopulated (we have the 2nd lowest population density in the G7, behind only Canada).

Do I think WNBA players should make as much as NBA players?  No.  Not even WNBA players think they should be paid the same as NBA players.

And no, the pay gap claim is not necessarily that women are paid less than men for the SAME work (although they are):

The gender pay gap or gender wage gap is the average difference between the remuneration for men and women who are working. Women are generally considered to be paid less than men. There are two distinct numbers regarding the pay gap: non-adjusted versus adjusted pay gap. The latter typically takes into account differences in hours worked, occupations chosen, education and job experience. In the United States, for example, the non-adjusted average female's annual salary is 79% of the average male salary, compared to 95% for the adjusted average salary.

"Equal Pay Day" refers specifically to how far into the new year the average woman must work (in addition to their earnings last year) in order to have earned what the average man had earned the entire previous year, regardless of experience or job type.

[dolphins4life]

Having children is necessary for our society to continue.  Someone needs to be working and paying taxes 50 years from now, and the United States is not even remotely close to being overpopulated (we have the 2nd lowest population density in the G7, behind only Canada).

Do I think WNBA players should make as much as NBA players?  No.  Not even WNBA players think they should be paid the same as NBA players.

And no, the pay gap claim is not necessarily that women are paid less than men for the SAME work (although they are):

The gender pay gap or gender wage gap is the average difference between the remuneration for men and women who are working. Women are generally considered to be paid less than men. There are two distinct numbers regarding the pay gap: non-adjusted versus adjusted pay gap. The latter typically takes into account differences in hours worked, occupations chosen, education and job experience. In the United States, for example, the non-adjusted average female's annual salary is 79% of the average male salary, compared to 95% for the adjusted average salary.

"Equal Pay Day" refers specifically to how far into the new year the average woman must work (in addition to their earnings last year) in order to have earned what the average man had earned the entire previous year, regardless of experience or job type.

Your first point is pretty flawed.  Our population density compared to other countries is not valid.  Imagine if seven overweight people set together in a room.  The second lightest said, "I'm not overweight.  All of seven people in this room, I am the second lightest"  That would be absurd, would it not? 

As for the USWNT, would this be a valid proposal?  Why don't we have a game where they play against the USMNT?  Then we can find out if they really are underpaid.

Here's a link that proves the gender pay gap is a myth

https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/12/harvard-study-confirms-the-gender-wage-gap-is-just-a-myth/

[Spider-Dan]

Let's not get bogged down in hypothetical analogies.
Are you claiming that the United States of America is currently overpopulated?  If so, on which metric are you basing that claim?

As for the USWNT, would this be a valid proposal?  Why don't we have a game where they play against the USMNT?  Then we can find out if they really are underpaid.

If the soccer USMNT could play against women 100% of the time, maybe they'd actually win something for once.
However, since that's not the case, having the two teams play each other tells us virtually nothing about which team is better at their job (given that their job is beating the opponents on their schedule).

And again, your link does not prove that the pay gap is a "myth." The entire premise of that study is to measure men and women doing the same work (and even there, the study confirms a gender pay gap while offering a possible explanation).  But as I just said, the gender pay gap is about more than "equal pay for equal work"; it's also about the fact that "feminine" jobs (e.g. teacher) pay less than "masculine" jobs (e.g. police officer).

[dolphins4life]

Let's not get bogged down in hypothetical analogies.
Are you claiming that the United States of America is currently overpopulated?  If so, on which metric are you basing that claim?
If the soccer USMNT could play against women 100% of the time, maybe they'd actually win something for once.
However, since that's not the case, having the two teams play each other tells us virtually nothing about which team is better at their job (given that their job is beating the opponents on their schedule).

And again, your link does not prove that the pay gap is a "myth." The entire premise of that study is to measure men and women doing the same work (and even there, the study confirms a gender pay gap while offering a possible explanation).  But as I just said, the gender pay gap is about more than "equal pay for equal work"; it's also about the fact that "feminine" jobs (e.g. teacher) pay less than "masculine" jobs (e.g. police officer).

I didn't claim it either way.  I had originally responded to your point that having children is such a wonderful thing.  I believe, yes it is overpopulated, given that we spend billions of dollars a year on families who can't afford their children.

How is teaching feminine?  How is police officer masculine?  We have women police officers.  We have men who teach. 

[dolphins4life]

So should the champion of the minor leagues in baseball be paid more than the major leaguers who don't win the World Series?

[Spider-Dan]

Children are a necessary component of a society that intends to exist longer than the current generation, for rather obvious reasons.

I believe, yes it is overpopulated, given that we spend billions of dollars a year on families who can't afford their children.

I don't see how those two things are connected.  By this metric, what would an underpopulated country look like?

How is teaching feminine?  How is police officer masculine?  We have women police officers.  We have men who teach.

Teaching is traditionally a feminine job, as the vast majority of teachers are female; vice versa for police.

So should the champion of the minor leagues in baseball be paid more than the major leaguers who don't win the World Series?

No, they should not, but that's irrelevant.  This analogy is terrible, for many reasons:

- inexperienced male prospects do not work their way up through the women's league
- underperforming male players are not sent back down to the women's league
- the US government does not fund the operations of minor or major league baseball

[ArtieChokePhin]

Lastly, I don't see why the soccer US Women's National Team (of which Rapinoe is a member) should be paid less than the US Men's National Team.  Notwithstanding the fact that the former is FAR more successful than the latter, the national teams receive funding from our government.

Success is one thing, generating revenue is another.  I hear the leftists bitch about this all the time as well as WNBA stars being paid much less than their NBA counterparts.  If they want their argument to have merit, they will have to come up with a much better example than this.

Fact is, women's sports doesn't generate the revenue men's sports does.  Especially in basketball.  If Sue Bird and other WNBA stars got paid like Lebron James and Steph Curry, the WBNA would have to close shop.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Success is one thing, generating revenue is another.  I hear the leftists bitch about this all the time as well as WNBA stars being paid much less than their NBA counterparts.  If they want their argument to have merit, they will have to come up with a much better example than this.

Fact is, women's sports doesn't generate the revenue men's sports does.  Especially in basketball.  If Sue Bird and other WNBA stars got paid like Lebron James and Steph Curry, the WBNA would have to close shop.

Total Bullshit.

Nobody is arguing Sue Bird should make as much as Larry Bird did. 

However The women’s soccer team generates considerably more revenue (TV, ticket sales merch, etc.) then the mens team.  AND The men are paid more than the women.  If we use the NBA/WNBA comparison the women soccer players should be making much more than the men rather than much less.

[Tenshot13]

Total Bullshit.

Nobody is arguing Sue Bird should make as much as Larry Bird did. 

However The women’s soccer team generates considerably more revenue (TV, ticket sales merch, etc.) then the mens team.  AND The men are paid more than the women.  If we use the NBA/WNBA comparison the women soccer players should be making much more than the men rather than much less.

Debatable

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/story/2019-07-30/us-soccer-women-paid-more-than-men

[ArtieChokePhin]

Nobody is arguing Sue Bird should make as much as Larry Bird did. 

This statement right here is bullshit.  I see it all over social media. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This statement right here is bullshit.  I see it all over social media. 

You see that from people making bullshit straw-man argument.  Not from actual advocates of equal pay. 

The WNBA players deserve more money but not NBA money. 

[Spider-Dan]

This statement right here is bullshit.  I see it all over social media.  

You can see it right here directly from Sue Bird herself.  I already linked it earlier:

"I say this totally real — I don't think we should get the same money as NBA players," Bird said. "People think we think that when we say things like 'We want equality.'"

In actuality, the WNBA's all-time assists leader said she believes that calls for equality between men's and women's professional basketball are less about exorbitant salaries than about equal investment and exposure for the WNBA.

"We're just like 'Could I get the same media coverage, and the corporate sponsor looks, and things like that?'" Bird said. "So we can build the business, and then when it's really good — like the NBA is — then we can get that money."

Fact is, women's sports doesn't generate the revenue men's sports does.  Especially in basketball.

I don't have a problem with athlete salaries being tied to league revenue.  Neither does Sue Bird.

However, US Soccer is heavily funded by the US government.  Revenue should not be the determining factor here.