It pays not to work in Biden's America

[Fau Teixeira]

I don’t care what they say or aren’t saying ... here in the Orlando area they are struggling. You don’t just switch to drive thru only and shortened hours because you wanted to.

who cares what the companies say, i know better than them the internal state of their corporations!

[Fau Teixeira]

Glad you brought red states into this. People are moving in droves to red states but are leaving blue states. Can’t wait to hear your excuse as to why Republican failures are causing this too!

Maybe people in blue states are just tired of bankrolling red state excess and irresponsibility
Maybe people in blue states feel like for electoral reasons they need to disperse and make red states bluer
Maybe too many people live too concentrated in blue states so they're choosing to move to the relatively sparsely populated red states.
Maybe since people in blue states make more money that people in red states, they're choosing to move to a poorer state to allow their money to stretch farther. Much like Americans have moved to third world countries like costa rica or belize to retire and let their money be stretched farther.

That last one in fact, while I live in florida and think sometimes, wow .. if i were working 100% remotely i could move to (insert poor red state here) and my salary would go so much further.  People in new york and california have the same thoughts, wow .. i could make san fransisco money and live in montana .. how awesome would that be. That's why montana is turning purple.

You're implying it's because people prefer red state policies, i'm saying it's because of red state mismanagement that have turned them into pseudo third world states that makes them attractive for people to move to.

[Dave Gray]

Our real estate market in S. Florida (we're pretty blue locally, despite the state iteself being red) is flooded with California money right now.

Even though our real estate is expensive, it's still quite a bit less than L.A. and we don't have state income tax.  So, you can sell your house and buy a bigger one here, straight cash, homie.  It's causing a weird situation where if you sell your house for a profit here, you can't really afford to live here anymore....so like Fau said, the money move is to move out of State.

Or really, it's to move to a different part of the state.  Port St. Lucie has blown up over the past decade from people migrating North from the Palm Beaches -- your money just stretches so much further there.

[masterfins]

Given that grocery stores and restaurants are right behind healthcare as two of the industries most likely to expose workers to the potentially-infected public, it's hard to blame people for preferring to stay home on unemployment.

Especially when you have people on the "news" channel telling them that the vaccines are untested and potentially dangerous.

Unfortunately we have turned into a service driven economy with manufacturing jobs shipped out of the country, and you can't blame that on Trump, he instituted policies to bring business back into the US.  As for your other comments the majority of these workers aren't NOT getting jobs because of the fear of Covid, they are staying home because they would rather do nothing and get as much (or close to it) by collecting unemployment.

[masterfins]

Maybe people in blue states are just tired of bankrolling red state excess and irresponsibility
Maybe people in blue states feel like for electoral reasons they need to disperse and make red states bluer
Maybe too many people live too concentrated in blue states so they're choosing to move to the relatively sparsely populated red states.
Maybe since people in blue states make more money that people in red states, they're choosing to move to a poorer state to allow their money to stretch farther. Much like Americans have moved to third world countries like costa rica or belize to retire and let their money be stretched farther.

That last one in fact, while I live in florida and think sometimes, wow .. if i were working 100% remotely i could move to (insert poor red state here) and my salary would go so much further.  People in new york and california have the same thoughts, wow .. i could make san fransisco money and live in montana .. how awesome would that be. That's why montana is turning purple.

You're implying it's because people prefer red state policies, i'm saying it's because of red state mismanagement that have turned them into pseudo third world states that makes them attractive for people to move to.

What's this Red State mismanagement that you talk about, but provide no context for?  Two of the biggest Blue States in the country, California and New York (I live in NY), are the highest taxed most mismanaged states in the Union.  There isn't a single Red State that I can think of that comes close to how screwed up California and New York are.

[ArtieChokePhin]

What's this Red State mismanagement that you talk about, but provide no context for?  Two of the biggest Blue States in the country, California and New York (I live in NY), are the highest taxed most mismanaged states in the Union.  There isn't a single Red State that I can think of that comes close to how screwed up California and New York are.

Yep.  It says quite a bit when buying a large soda is illegal or the state can't properly maintain its national parks.

[Spider-Dan]

I don’t care what they say or aren’t saying ... here in the Orlando area they are struggling. You don’t just switch to drive thru only and shortened hours because you wanted to.

Notwithstanding Fau's excellent point about you thinking you know more about Starbucks than their own CEO, consider that maybe the Starbucks in your area are reducing service because they have a shortage of customers, not employees.

I seriously doubt that all the teleworkers who pick up coffee during their morning commute are going to continue to drive to Starbucks every morning when they are working from home.

Glad you brought red states into this. People are moving in droves to red states but are leaving blue states. Can’t wait to hear your excuse as to why Republican failures are causing this too! 😂

Blue states generally have more expensive real estate because more people want to live there.  There's a reason why Wall Street, Tinseltown, and Silicon Valley are all in blue states, and it's not the tax rates.

So when people get priced out of housing in blue states, they move to less expensive, less populated red states.  The problem for you is that they tend to bring their liberal values with them.  CO and VA used to be solidly Republican and now they are Democratic strongholds; AZ, GA, and NC are getting bluer by the day.

[Spider-Dan]

What's this Red State mismanagement that you talk about, but provide no context for?  Two of the biggest Blue States in the country, California and New York (I live in NY), are the highest taxed most mismanaged states in the Union.  There isn't a single Red State that I can think of that comes close to how screwed up California and New York are.

During this pandemic, CA managed to save up a $75B budget surplus.  We've already given out one round of $600 stimulus payments to people making under $30k/year, and the governor just proposed a second round for people making under $75k/year, as well as $5 billion in rental assistance to help tenants (and landlords!) affected by the nationwide eviction moratoriums.

Meanwhile, this past winter our fellow patriots in the proud and free Lone Star State were burning their own furniture to keep warm as their politicians fled to Mexican beaches, all because they wanted to avoid federal grid regulation so badly that they let their power grid fall to pieces.

But tell me more about how badly blue states are mismanaged.  How's your state doing?

[Fau Teixeira]

i had forgotten how huge of a shit-show texas was with that whole power grid thing, 3rd world state indeed

[Phishfan]

Yep.  It says quite a bit when buying a large soda is illegal or the state can't properly maintain its national parks.

Since when did any state become responsible for maintaining a national park?

[pondwater]

And what about 18-year-old high school dropouts working in construction?  Unskilled labor is unskilled labor.

The irony is that in countries where fast food employees get paid a decent wage, you don't just have "high schoolers" working there.  That is obviously not a coincidence:

Fast food workers earn $20 per hour in Denmark

An excerpt:

"In Denmark, unions dominate and fast food companies aren’t nearly as popular as their U.S. counterparts. Despite smaller profits, the fast food industry as a whole offers their employees five weeks of paid vacation, paternity and maternity leave and a pension plan. Employees also report higher rates of satisfaction and stay with their jobs longer. McDonald’s employee retention rate in the U.S. averaged to less than eight months.

In the U.S. where Denmark’s social safety net is reserved for leftists’ fantasies, paying fast food workers $20 hourly may seem impossible. Currently, unionization is difficult because fast food employees are technically employed by franchise owners, not the corporations as a whole.

Seeking to sell the cheapest product, fast food companies say they can’t afford the 65 percent wage increase that many activists and protesters asked for. McDonald’s, for example, would have to raise prices 25 percent if they were to double their wages – from minimum $7.25 to $15 – costing customers up to a dollar more on popular items like the Big Mac, according to Bloomberg Businessweek. In Denmark, the Big Mac costs $5.60 to America’s $4.80, but consumer’s say it’s worth it."

Yeah, not only is that actual product more expensive. Might want to check out the taxes in Denmark vs the US. That $20/hr isn't going to translate in to take home money. Just moving money from one pocket to another.

[ArtieChokePhin]

Yeah, not only is that actual product more expensive. Might want to check out the taxes in Denmark vs the US. That $20/hr isn't going to translate in to take home money. Just moving money from one pocket to another.

This right here.  Denmark has a 65% federal income tax rate compared to about 33% here in the states.  That's how they can afford the "free healthcare, child care and college tuition".  It is all government subsidized but it's not free.  Somebody's gotta pay for it.  If you have a job, that somebody is you.

[Spider-Dan]

If you guys are going to start philosophizing about tax rates, maybe you should learn how taxes work first.  It doesn't sound like either of you understand what marginal tax rates are.

Denmark has a 65% federal income tax rate compared to about 33% here in the states.

Every single part of this sentence is wrong.

1) Denmark's maximum "federal" income tax rate is 22.99%, but...
2) Someone making the equivalent of $20/hr (for a 37 hour Danish work week, that's $38,780/year in USD, or 237,014/year in DKK) is not being taxed at that top marginal rate; they would be taxed at an effective "federal" marginal tax rate of 11.2%
3) Denmark also has an additional municipal tax rate that ranges between 22.5% to 27.8%, but that's not "federal" (or even "national") tax rate; it is analogous to state & local taxes in the US (and has many available deductions)
4) The US federal income tax rate for someone making $20/hr is not anywhere near "33%"; it's less than 12% (11.87%, to be exact)

And as far as all that "free healthcare" stuff?  They don't pay a separate tax for Medicare while we do (1.45% payroll tax), and while they pay a flat yearly contribution for their Social Security (equivalent to ~$185/year), we pay a 6.2% payroll tax (for a person making $20/hr, that works out to ~$2580/year).

So let's try a more accurate comparison.  I'll even use the maximum municipal tax rate for the Danish employee with no deductions.
(all numbers are in USD for simplicity)

Danish McDonald's worker earning $20/hour:
37 hour Danish work week x 52 weeks = 1,924 hours
1,924 x $20 = $38,480 gross income
$38,480 x 11.2% national marginal income tax rate = $4,310 in national income tax
$38,480 x 27.8% municipal income tax rate = $10,697 in municipal income tax
$38,410 - $4,310 national tax - $10,697 municipal tax - $185 Social Security contribution = $23,288 take home pay
$23,288 / 1,924 hours = $12.10 net pay per hour

Do I even need to do the American side of this equation at this point?  Even if an American McDonald's worker had ZERO TAX DOLLARS taken out of their paycheck, they would need to be making at least $12.10/hr to compare to their Danish counterpart... who also gets free universal healthcare and 5 weeks paid vacation each year.

Please stop with this extremely dumb tax argument.

[CF DolFan]

Our real estate market in S. Florida (we're pretty blue locally, despite the state iteself being red) is flooded with California money right now.

Even though our real estate is expensive, it's still quite a bit less than L.A. and we don't have state income tax.  So, you can sell your house and buy a bigger one here, straight cash, homie.  It's causing a weird situation where if you sell your house for a profit here, you can't really afford to live here anymore....so like Fau said, the money move is to move out of State.

Or really, it's to move to a different part of the state.  Port St. Lucie has blown up over the past decade from people migrating North from the Palm Beaches -- your money just stretches so much further there.

It's like that all over the state including the rural areas. I've been trying to buy a new house on some property and have lost a few bids even when we went 10K over asking price on the first day. It's not uncommon for people to accept offers for a few days in these crazy times. We have seen the market for what we are looking for go up about 200K in the last 5 months since we've been looking. We had a contract on a house with 11 acres so we put our house up for sale and sold it in one day for 20K over what we had originally thought. Unfortunately the owners backed out of our deal so we are still looking for a place. Florida is a desirable place to live for many reasons but lower taxes and the fact our state was open when others weren't are a huge driving point. Both of which are republican ideals.

[CF DolFan]

Maine was a red state for as long as I can remember, certainly since I moved here at 16.  Since the 50's Maine has elected 12 Republican governors to four democratic ones, and one Independent.  The shift has changed since the 90's, however, where Maine is a "split" state.  The southern, most populated part votes blue, the northern, rural, red; this last election with pockets of blue.  Why?  In the last three years something like 30% of all real estate in the state has been purchased by out of state buyers. 

The perception of Maine being a "blue" state is untrue, the cities (Portland, Lewiston / Auburn, Bangor) drove this; and that has been largely driven by influx of new people in the state since the 90s.  Once you get out of the cities and into "legacy" towns (where people have lived for generations) it's all red, but those town are now expanding as well. 

That's interesting and basically what is happening everywhere. California, Florida and New York are all like that aren't they? Rural and urban areas are having less and less in common.