Liberal media's dramatic Covid flip-flop

[pondwater]

A lot of these things we're talking about are gray issues that don't have a strict right or wrong.  I pro immigration, in general -- I think it's a net positive for the country and gives us much of our cultural identity.  It's kind of what makes America America, IMO.  But I see how if that goes unchecked, we can get overrun.

My biggest beef with Trump's handling of that was the callousness of it.  There are some terrible side-effects of immigration that we need to find ways to do better, but the Trump administration used those things as a feature to discourage it.  I think that was wrong.  And I think that the wall, while not a terrible idea conceptually, having a strong physical border, is antiquated and should've been dropped in favor of other methods.

Nah, shut it down totally for the immediate future and get it all under control. Finish building the wall and fund as many border patrol agents as it takes. Or better yet get our people out of some of those hostile places in the Middle East and have them patrol the northern and southern borders. That would be the better use of the Armed Forces. Then once you get the borders in order you can concentrate on finding the illegal aliens and sending them back to their legal country of residence. That goes for ALL people here illegally. Canadian, Mexican, Danish, Irish, Israeli, etc.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't want to turn this entirely into an immigration discussion, but it is well known that the majority of illegal immigrants are not undocumented border crossers, but people who come into the country legally and then violate their visa to stay (you know, like Melania Trump did).

"Securing the border" is just virtue signalling for "Look how hard we are working to keep out all the people from the Mexican countries."  No one is talking about building a wall in Michigan.

[pondwater]

I don't want to turn this entirely into an immigration discussion, but it is well known that the majority of illegal immigrants are not undocumented border crossers, but people who come into the country legally and then violate their visa to stay (you know, like Melania Trump did).

"Securing the border" is just virtue signalling for "Look how hard we are working to keep out all the people from the Mexican countries."  No one is talking about building a wall in Michigan.

I literally just said that our armed forces should be patrolling the northern and southern borders. And anyone who is currently here illegally should be deported out off US soil regardless of where they are from.

[Spider-Dan]

I repeat: there are no calls to build a wall on the northern border.  You can give some lip service about patrolling the northern border, but it's obvious where the actual enforcement priority lies for conservatives.  There were never any kids in detention camps on the Canadian border, and there never will be.

The fact that your earlier post focused entirely on border security and not-at-all on visa enforcement shows exactly where your priorities are.
Even though you've literally never mentioned the word "visa" on this forum, I'll be generous and interpret "ALL people here illegally" as an extremely vague allusion to visa enforcement, despite your consistent single-track focus on border security.  (I think the more reasonable inference is "everyone illegally crossing the border from any country," but whatever.)

[CF DolFan]

Good news. Biden has now ordered intelligence to investigate the Wuhan lab Corona virus link. You know ... the same investigation he suspended because Trump had ordered it. He’s brilliant! Maybe he’ll figure out we need to secure the border next.

[Spider-Dan]

So since you're trumpeting the investigation of the origin of COVID, does that mean you'll accept the outcome of the investigation if it says there is no link?
If not, this is just another "Heads I win, tails you lose" bad faith argument from the right.

[Sunstroke]

So since you're trumpeting the investigation of the origin of COVID, does that mean you'll accept the outcome of the investigation if it says there is no link?
If not, this is just another "Heads I win, tails you lose" bad faith argument from the right.

This...exactly

[CF DolFan]

So since you're trumpeting the investigation of the origin of COVID, does that mean you'll accept the outcome of the investigation if it says there is no link?
If not, this is just another "Heads I win, tails you lose" bad faith argument from the right.

LMAO. I think we already know the answer since everyone has already jumped off that sinking ship and left their original criticism of the mean twitter guy. I will accept the answer as long as it isn't being funded by China. I've seen several scientists who complained about their findings being disregarded only because they voted republican but are now being sought out. It's amazing how much we have in common when everything out of our mouths or posts aren't politically motivated. Maybe I should say that again and slower ...  It's amazing how much we have in common when everything out of our mouths or posts aren't politically motivated.

[Spider-Dan]

I will accept the answer as long as it isn't being funded by China.

What does this even mean?
Isn't the investigation by the US government?

I've seen several scientists who complained about their findings being disregarded only because they voted republican but are now being sought out.

Like who?

You guys on the right have taken this "Some people are saying" Trumpian verbal tick to the level of a religion.

Some unnamed liberals "used to agree" with Trump's orthodox conservative positions "before he was elected."
Some unnamed scientists "had their findings disregarded" because they vote Republican "but are now being sought out"... by whom?

[Phishfan]

I think you have to be naive to completely dismiss the idea that the Chinese were not working on the virus in a lab in the exact region the spread started. I also think you need to be a bit dismissive of any results because the Chinese have already shown what they consider an open door policy.

[pondwater]

I repeat: there are no calls to build a wall on the northern border.  You can give some lip service about patrolling the northern border, but it's obvious where the actual enforcement priority lies for conservatives.  There were never any kids in detention camps on the Canadian border, and there never will be.

The fact that your earlier post focused entirely on border security and not-at-all on visa enforcement shows exactly where your priorities are.
Even though you've literally never mentioned the word "visa" on this forum, I'll be generous and interpret "ALL people here illegally" as an extremely vague allusion to visa enforcement, despite your consistent single-track focus on border security.  (I think the more reasonable inference is "everyone illegally crossing the border from any country," but whatever.)

It includes exactly what it says in plain English. Anyone here illegally, whether overstaying visas or illegally crossing the border, needs to be removed from the United States. I think you knew that though, you just wanna argue some liberal anger today for your daily therapy. Gotcha...

[Spider-Dan]

I think you have to be naive to completely dismiss the idea that the Chinese were not working on the virus in a lab in the exact region the spread started. I also think you need to be a bit dismissive of any results because the Chinese have already shown what they consider an open door policy.

I think we should probably clarify exactly what we're talking about.

Is the claim that COVID is a Chinese bioweapon that China accidentally lost control of?
Such a claim would require that the conventional understanding - that COVID originated from wild game at a food market - is a lie/cover story.  Because COVID can't be both a government-developed bioweapon and an accidental cross-species infection from the wild.

If COVID is a Chinese bioweapon, why was China the first place to get infected?  Furthermore, if COVID was engineered by China, why did China take just as long as the rest of the world to develop a vaccine?

[Sunstroke]

^^^ How dare you introduce reason into this political discussion... You know that Republicans live for a good conspiracy theory...the more outlandish the better.

Here's what actually happened, according to a friend of my cousin's ex-girlfriend, who may have been somewhere near the hemisphere where the following events occurred:

In 2018, Barack Obama, George Soros, Bill Gates and an entourage of radical Democrats secretly flew to China, where they met with the ghost of Mao Zedong, who is in charge of China's chemical weapons division. Mao assured the group of liberal glitterati that the new chemical formula they've developed works almost perfectly, and releasing it would cause millions of fatalities, but that 75% of the fatalities would be Republicans.

"That's fine," Barack said to the pasty dead Asian dude..."We don't care about the American people, as long as enough of those damned Republicans die that we can continue stealing elections...and all the other evil shit that we like to do."

Mao rubbed his hands together, an impish, ghostly grin creeping across his face. "And our reward?"

Barack reached across the table and shook Mao's hand. "If this works as well as you say, then yes...you get Texas."

[Dave Gray]

The thing with immigration is that I just don't really know what problem we're trying to solve, and what resources it's worth to do it.  And beyond that, how much of the effort is to truly help the people who are citizens here and how much of it is xenophobia to blame others for our problems.  And then there's this nagging feeling that I have, just from a morality standpoint, where it's hard to justify letting someone live a shitty life because they were born on the wrong side of a fence.  I know you can't help everyone, but do what you can, right?

Some immigration is good.   Legal/illegal are just terms that are fluid anyway, so I don't care so much about that.  I do agree that it's important, in general terms to check the amount of it, so that you're not getting flooded faster than your systems can handle it, but I don't know how feasible it is to try and stop it altogether, nor what you'd really get if you did that.

I'm getting to a point in my political views as I get older, where I'm not really an idealist as much as I used to be.  I'm more practical, so I am hesitant to worry about things based on principle and more about looking at what likely outcomes are.  So, if we were to follow pondwater's plan, firstly, I don't think it would work.  But I think it would be antethetical to what makes America great in the first place, which is our promise to blend cultures to bring out the best of all of us

When I was younger, I used to have more hard-line views with things like that, but they've softened as I've aged.  

[masterfins]

So since you're trumpeting the investigation of the origin of COVID, does that mean you'll accept the outcome of the investigation if it says there is no link?
If not, this is just another "Heads I win, tails you lose" bad faith argument from the right.

Will you accept it, and admit Trump was right?