Are we great yet?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The amount paid to the slave labor prisoners is tiny compared to the cost of guarding, transporting, housing (many farms are not next to a prison). 

Most prisoners already have a prison job (that doesn't require leaving the prison compound).

While I would support the idea of requiring all prisoners to be paid min wage so they have a way to land on their feet when released rather than needing to resort to theft to eat, I doubt "the build a wall" crowd would support such a measure. 

For context, in the 1940s POWs in the USA who worked were paid 80 cents a day.  Eighty years later prison labor is paid on average 86 cents per day.   

[Sibster]

"How dare you assume 'prisoners' would be paid 'prison wages' (even though I said absolutely nothing indicating otherwise)"

Even minimum wage would be "pennies on the dollar" compared to what you would have to pay citizens to work these farms, which is why you have to use forced labor in the first place.

In reality, farm hands get paid way less than minimum wage in money.   They get their housing and food taken care of though.  Same thing with ranch hands.   

In this case, you pay the inmates minimum wage, and of course the prison is taking care of their housing and food.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The solution is to make getting an H2-A visa easier.  And to stop arresting people who legally have an H2-A visa. 

[Spider-Dan]

In reality, farm hands get paid way less than minimum wage in money.   They get their housing and food taken care of though.  Same thing with ranch hands.  

In this case, you pay the inmates minimum wage, and of course the prison is taking care of their housing and food.

Even if this were accurate (and it's not), you still have to FORCE slaves prisoners to do this job because American citizens won't (with that pay+benefits).

[Sibster]

Even if this were accurate (and it's not), you still have to FORCE slaves prisoners to do this job because American citizens won't (with that pay+benefits).

They broke the law.   End of story.

[Spider-Dan]

You think you're arguing for punishing criminals.  But the actual argument you are making is that the free market cannot support the American farm industry, and so we must use forced labor to artificially keep the prices low.

You know, like the Confederacy.

[Sibster]

You think you're arguing for punishing criminals.  But the actual argument you are making is that the free market cannot support the American farm industry, and so we must use forced labor to artificially keep the prices low.

You know, like the Confederacy.

The difference is, the Africans who were hauled over here didn't break any laws.   Neither did the Israelites in ancient Egypt.

Like Joe Arapaio said, the soldiers who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan lived in those conditions and they didn't break any laws either.   So STFU and do your time.

[Spider-Dan]

Again, whether or not the prisoners deserve their lot is not the point.
If the farm industry REQUIRES forced labor to maintain competitive pricing, it is not a viable industry in the United States.

[CF DolFan]

Kind of off topic but it does relate to the farming industry. Does anyone here watch Clarkson's Farm on Prime? Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson really reveals how difficult farming can be and I'm not talking about the physical aspects. Regulations and government officials are choking them out. If he wasn't rich, he would have filed bankruptcy as he is constantly losing money because of what he can and can't do. For instance, badgers cause bovine tuberculosis in cattle but you cannot touch them or do anything to harm them. It causes whole herds to be destroyed but you cannot protect them. Crazy.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Kind of off topic but it does relate to the farming industry. Does anyone here watch Clarkson's Farm on Prime? Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson really reveals how difficult farming can be and I'm not talking about the physical aspects. Regulations and government officials are choking them out. If he wasn't rich, he would have filed bankruptcy as he is constantly losing money because of what he can and can't do. For instance, badgers cause bovine tuberculosis in cattle but you cannot touch them or do anything to harm them. It causes whole herds to be destroyed but you cannot protect them. Crazy.

How exactly is a hobby farm in the UK whose entire business model is built on creating drama for the camara (not actual agricultural products) the least bit relevant to US commercial agricultural?   

[CF DolFan]

How exactly is a hobby farm in the UK whose entire business model is built on creating drama for the camara (not actual agricultural products) the least bit relevant to US commercial agricultural?   

His "hobby" farm is 1000 acres. Less than 10% of our farms are as big or larger. It was a working farm when he bought it. He didn't just plant some beans in his backyard.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

His "hobby" farm is 1000 acres. Less than 10% of our farms are as big or larger. It was a working farm when he bought it. He didn't just plant some beans in his backyard.

It's size doesn't matter.  It isn't being run like farm by a farmer.  It is being run like someone read a book on homesteading who jumps around to whatever project strikes their fancy. He is a lot closer to the homesteader that complains that after buying chickens, the necessary equipment and their feed it would have been cheaper to just buy eggs at the store, than an actual chicken farmer.  He is just doing it at a larger scale. 

And as it isn't a US farm it is a really horrible model for US regulations.

This is the equivalent of pretending that Pawn Stars represents the normal operation of a typical London pawn shop.   

[Spider-Dan]

The studies done during the first two decades of the century (when badgers were being trapped and killed to "stop the spread of bovine tuberculosis") showed that not only did badger culling NOT reduce bTB, it made the problem worse.  This is why you can't just kill the badgers: they already tried that solution and it didn't work.

But just like in the US where you have conservatives complaining about "protected smelt" (with no interest in why they became protected), Jeremy Clarkson is going to complain that he can't just kill all the badgers to Solve The Problem.

[CF DolFan]

The studies done during the first two decades of the century (when badgers were being trapped and killed to "stop the spread of bovine tuberculosis") showed that not only did badger culling NOT reduce bTB, it made the problem worse.  This is why you can't just kill the badgers: they already tried that solution and it didn't work.

But just like in the US where you have conservatives complaining about "protected smelt" (with no interest in why they became protected), Jeremy Clarkson is going to complain that he can't just kill all the badgers to Solve The Problem.

Well smart guy, they made him kill a fully pregnant mother only to find out she, nor her baby, had TB when they did the autopsy. The government has no idea what they are doing because it's office guys making the decisions and not the farmers. The TB testing procedure is absolutely stupid. It's kind of like when keyboard warriors solve all the problems of the world on a message board but accomplish nothing in real life. hahaha

[Sibster]

Well smart guy, they made him kill a fully pregnant mother only to find out she, nor her baby, had TB when they did the autopsy. The government has no idea what they are doing because it's office guys making the decisions and not the farmers. The TB testing procedure is absolutely stupid. It's kind of like when keyboard warriors solve all the problems of the world on a message board but accomplish nothing in real life. hahaha

The government is really good about mugging farmers and small business owners.   They always have been, regardless of who is in office.